Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 00:40:00 -1000 From: oakden@vo5.ph.liv.ac.uk (M.N.Oakden) Message-Id: Organization: nil Subject: Flexifoil stacking lines Hi, I have a question for all the flexi stack experts out there. What is the best (or your favourite) method for tying train lines. I have been using a continuous length of heavy line (dacron? nylon?) with loops tied in it at intervals by doubling it over and tying an overhand knot in it. I then tie a figure eight knot at the end for larksheading my sleeved flying line loop onto ... i.e. start with this:-- __ __ __ __ / \ / \ / \ / \ \ / \ / \ / \ / ____________/ \_________/ \_________/ \_________/ \__ and tie four overhand knots and one figure eight to get this: _ _ _ _ / \ / \ / \ / \ \ / \ / \ / \ / _8___________&___________&___________&___________&__ 8 = figure-eight knot & = overhand knot This has served me very well for a while, but yesterday, I managed to break one of my train lines twice. The first time it failed at the figure eight knot where my flying line was attached, so I merely retied a new figure eight on the end of the train line (and a fresh one on the train line at the other side to keep the line lengths roughly even) and continued. The next time, it failed at the overhand knot of the loop for the lowest kite (I guess this figures, since this one has the most tension of all the loops). What better ways of making train lines exist. I'm not sure I'm ready for splicing yet (but I am open to persuasion). Also what materials do other folks use for their train lines? Thanks muchly, Mark. [who was very sad when he finally had to put his stack away yesterday after only one hour, having had a great time being dragged around at high speed on his butt] -- oakden@dice2.desy.de oakden@hep.ph.liv.ac.uk | Squid-seller, I'm not politically incorrect, | harping cuckoo - I'm just differently articulate. | one voice. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 00:40:00 -1000 From: oakden@vo5.ph.liv.ac.uk (M.N.Oakden) Message-Id: Organization: nil Subject: Flexifoil stacking lines Hi, I have a question for all the flexi stack experts out there. What is the best (or your favourite) method for tying train lines. I have been using a continuous length of heavy line (dacron? nylon?) with loops tied in it at intervals by doubling it over and tying an overhand knot in it. I then tie a figure eight knot at the end for larksheading my sleeved flying line loop onto ... i.e. start with this:-- __ __ __ __ / \ / \ / \ / \ \ / \ / \ / \ / ____________/ \_________/ \_________/ \_________/ \__ and tie four overhand knots and one figure eight to get this: _ _ _ _ / \ / \ / \ / \ \ / \ / \ / \ / _8___________&___________&___________&___________&__ 8 = figure-eight knot & = overhand knot This has served me very well for a while, but yesterday, I managed to break one of my train lines twice. The first time it failed at the figure eight knot where my flying line was attached, so I merely retied a new figure eight on the end of the train line (and a fresh one on the train line at the other side to keep the line lengths roughly even) and continued. The next time, it failed at the overhand knot of the loop for the lowest kite (I guess this figures, since this one has the most tension of all the loops). What better ways of making train lines exist. I'm not sure I'm ready for splicing yet (but I am open to persuasion). Also what materials do other folks use for their train lines? Thanks muchly, Mark. [who was very sad when he finally had to put his stack away yesterday after only one hour, having had a great time being dragged around at high speed on his butt] -- oakden@dice2.desy.de oakden@hep.ph.liv.ac.uk | Squid-seller, I'm not politically incorrect, | harping cuckoo - I'm just differently articulate. | one voice. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:27:10 -1000 From: john.mitchell@multinet.de (john) Message-Id: <199508300827.AA05197@BlackBird.MultiNET.DE> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: Flexifoil stacking lines Hi Mark, > > I have a question for all the flexi stack experts out there. > > What is the best (or your favourite) method for tying train lines. > > I have been using a continuous length of heavy line (dacron? nylon?) > with loops tied in it at intervals by doubling it over and tying an > overhand knot in it. I then tie a figure eight knot at the end for > larksheading my sleeved flying line loop onto ... > > i.e. start with this:-- > __ __ __ __ > / \ / \ / \ / \ > \ / \ / \ / \ / > ____________/ \_________/ \_________/ \_________/ \__ > > > and tie four overhand knots and one figure eight to get this: > > _ _ _ _ > / \ / \ / \ / \ > \ / \ / \ / \ / > _8___________&___________&___________&___________&__ > > > 8 = figure-eight knot & = overhand knot > > This has served me very well for a while, but yesterday, I managed > to break one of my train lines twice. > You all didn't know that I use to fly flexis, before I got so deep into Revs. I usually still have a flexi with me as my only dual liner. I always enjoy flying trains whether they be single, dual or quad line. Over the years I have found out a few neat ideas. So the answer for your Flexi-stack lines is: Never knot the train lines themselves, this reduces the breaking strength drastically right at the knot. The trick is to make yourself 10 cm long loops with a figure-8 knot in the end. The loop must be pushed through the main line, then the loop through the knoted end of the 10 cm knot loop and then pull it tight. ________________________/\__________________________ <---- Main flight line \/ \_____ use a blunt need to open up a ^ hole in the line for the loop | |____ push loop through this hole This end first _ through hole ---> | | | | <----- 10cm loop | | \ / & <--- figure-8 knot As the loop comes through the main flight line take the that end and push it through the loop on the knotted end of the loop. The knot of the 10cm loop will now rest against the main line. In this way you never knot the main lines. In time you could get some wear on the main lines where the loop is attached. Just move the loops 10cm down the lines. /\ /\ ------------------------------------------------------ <---- Main flight line \ & / | | | | | | <----- 10cm loop (atttached) | | - Now the loop may be attached to the tips of your flexi. I hope this helps all of you and it is clear enough. Now I'm off to Detmold, Germany for the German Nationals. I'll be back on line next Monday. Over-the-Rainbow, John Mitchell Munich, Germany Int. Swiss and German Quad-line Champion Member of DCB - DCD - STACK - STARRC STACK Pilots Representative - Germany = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 06:35:49 -1000 From: John F Catherwood Message-Id: <1995Aug31.163550.3220@queens-belfast.ac.uk> Organization: Queens University, Belfast Subject: Re: Flexifoil stacking lines oakden@vo5.ph.liv.ac.uk (M.N.Oakden) wrote: >I have a question for all the flexi stack experts out there. > >What is the best (or your favourite) method for tying train lines. >What better ways of making train lines exist. I'm not sure I'm ready >for splicing yet (but I am open to persuasion). Also what materials >do other folks use for their train lines? > I have had the same problems with train lines that you mention - after a short time they snap at the lowest knot. Recently I have tried the following technique, (I am sure I am not the first, but incase you haven't, I hope it is helpful). To make things simple to stack, I have now taken to using individual stacking lines for each kite using ordinary line (not spectra - the purple and white 150 pound stuff works well for 6 and 8 foot kites) Make up two lines for each kite, with loops on each end using overhand knots. (a picket fence is very useful for this) Then attach the lowest kite directly to the flying lines, and larks head the stacking line over the top. Simply attach the next kite using the other end of the stacking line in the usual way. Repeat until you run out of kites. This way you can add or swap the kites about in a matter of moments, without having spare tails of train line flying about and getting tangled if you only want to stack a couple of kites. Also, if a line breaks, it is simple to replace. I kept a set of 8 matched stacking lines on their own winding card for the flexis, as well as sets for stacking dynamos and Scorpions. Until some nameless hooligans stole the lot on Monday - see article Kites stolen in Ireland if you want the full sad story. John Catherwood = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =