Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 11:08:13 -1000 From: Jon & Gill Bloom <100255.116@CompuServe.COM> Message-Id: <3gu5vt$3no$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> Organization: The Kite Society of Great Britain Subject: European Joint Aviation Authority We have just received a note regarding the Pan-European Joint Aviation Authority which is soon going to start "harmonisation" of national regulations (including kites). Some questions The Kite Society has been asked to answer are: 1) Are there any "regulatory" problems which affect the ability to practice our sport? 2) Should there be a pan-European kite body to represent kite fliers and where such regulatory problems could be discussed. 3) Is there an association which specifically looks after the interests of European kite manufacturers (like the Kite Trade Association in America)? We welcome comments on these so that we can forward them. Gill and Jon Bloom = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 21:54:05 -1000 From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-Id: <3h4kit$ivf@pobox.csc.fi> Organization: STACK Finland Subject: Re: European Joint Aviation Authority In <3gu5vt$3no$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> Jon & Gill Bloom <100255.116@CompuServe.COM> writes: >We have just received a note regarding the Pan-European Joint >Aviation >Authority which is soon going to start "harmonisation" of >national >regulations (including kites). >Some questions The Kite Society has been asked to answer are: To whom you will send the answer? Who is behind this effort? Simo -- Simo.Salanne@csc.fi STACK Finland = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 13:06:01 -1000 From: swann_m@a1filton.filton.bso.mts.dec.com (Mike Swann) Message-Id: <20215170205991_1437040@FILTON> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: European Joint Aviation Authority [This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII] In reply (purely personal): 1. I don't have any regulatory problems. I think the existing rules are pretty sensible, and event organisers don't seem to have any major problems with, for example, raised height limits for festivals. 2. It would be nice to have a single European voice, but I wonder how it could be achieved effectively. A federation of national organisations is good if it works, and appalling if it doesn't. 3. Don't know. It would be interesting to know who asked the question. Mike -- SWANN_M@BSO.MTS.DEC.COM WHKF = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 10:38:43 -1000 From: Jon & Gill Bloom <100255.116@CompuServe.COM> Message-Id: <3h8loj$5kh$1@mhadg.production.compuserve.com> Organization: The Kite Society of Great Britain Subject: Re: European Joint Aviation Authority The FAI is partly behind this and they want representation from European Kite Groups for us to have a say. -- The Kite Society of Great Britain = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 15:07:18 -1000 From: mark@murder.demon.co.uk (Mark de Roussier) Message-Id: <792058038snx@murder.demon.co.uk> Organization: damage Subject: Re: European Joint Aviation Authority In article <3gu5vt$3no$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> Jon & Gill Bloom <100255.116@CompuServe.COM> writes: > We have just received a note regarding the Pan-European Joint > Aviation > Authority which is soon going to start "harmonisation" of > national > regulations (including kites). > > Some questions The Kite Society has been asked to answer are: > > 1) Are there any "regulatory" problems which affect the ability > to practice our sport? > Yes and no. In the sense that it would be very nice to have more spaces where we could go higher than 60m without asking permission, then yes. In the sense that the main points of the existing regulations are quite clear, and that permission for extensions is usually forthcoming ( if a little slow ), then no. Its the behaviour of air traffic, particularly military traffic, near kite festivals that concerns me more than the behaviour of kiters. On three occasions I can remember, military traffic has flown across a site, well below ( IMHO ) the agreed ceiling. > 2) Should there be a pan-European kite body to represent kite > fliers and where such regulatory problems could be discussed. > No - at least, this reason is not enough by itself to make the additional hassle and bureaucracy worthwhile. The first problem is that of finding a means to engage all the relevant parties in a meaningful debate. The net may hold the key here, it *could* reach a broad range of people including a fair number of the 'movers and shakers' of European kiting, but it won't suit everyone. It would first be necessary to agree on what functions this body should perform. This in itself is problematic, but I think it must be addressed first. Then the structure of the organisation must be decided. Is it to be a 'club of clubs', or should its members be individual fliers, perhaps getting membership via their national body ( if there is one ! )? Then there are the practical matters - finance, location ( not trivial ! ), staffing, etc. etc. All in all a ridiculous amount of effort to go to just to provide the EU/IATA or whoever with a single point of contact. Since the regs will be thrashed out between the relevant national organisations anyway, it would seem to me that the best thing for national kiting bodies, and individual fliers, to do is to express their concerns directly to those bodies, and to their political representatives. > 3) Is there an association which specifically looks after the > interests of European kite manufacturers (like the Kite Trade Association > in America)? > No. At least, not as far as I know. The problems are similar in nature to those described above, but probably even worse. . -- Mark de Roussier ************************************ A nice man is a man of nasty ideas. Jonathon Swift. ************************************ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 12:34:18 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: European Joint Aviation Authority Jon & Gill Bloom <100255.116@CompuServe.COM> writes: >1) Are there any "regulatory" problems which affect the ability >to practice our sport? Yes. 60m is unreasonably low, particularly for single-line. Andrew -- Does a Rev War Kite have 4 lines and fly on Manja? o /\ Kite Jumping: Read the Kite FAQ's: ftp.hawaii.edu:/pub/rec/kites/faq |_ \/ If you want For sale: Prototype Keelless Rowlands Flowform. US$80 (_\ to fly, use a Kite Fliers Site: http://www.kfs.org/kites andrew@tug.com Hangglider = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:49:17 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: European Joint Aviation Authority >> 2) Should there be a pan-European kite body to represent kite >> fliers and where such regulatory problems could be discussed. > >No - at least, this reason is not enough by itself to make the additional >hassle and bureaucracy worthwhile. Agreed. However we *do* have an excellent international kite body, who's membership includes prominent fliers from most European countries. The only problem is that they went and named it the American Kite Association :-( This is a *serious* comment. Andrew -- Does a Rev War Kite have 4 lines and fly on Manja? o /\ Kite Jumping: Read the Kite FAQ's: ftp.hawaii.edu:/pub/rec/kites/faq |_ \/ If you want For sale: Prototype Keelless Rowlands Flowform. US$80 (_\ to fly, use a Kite Fliers Site: http://www.kfs.org/kites andrew@tug.com Hangglider = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 09:43:52 -1000 From: steltzer@vwv.b.eunet.de (Michael Steltzer) Message-Id: Organization: Vom Winde Verweht GmbH Subject: Re: European Joint Aviation Authority >3) Is there an association which specifically looks after the >interests of > European kite manufacturers (like the Kite Trade Association >in America)? >We welcome comments on these so that we can forward them. >Gill and Jon Bloom In Germany there is an initiative to found a "Bundesverband des Deutschen Drachenhandels". This organisation is being supported by the KTA. Similar Organisations can be founded in other countries. The founding comittee of the BDD will meet in Hannover on the 19th of March. The BDD will be founded sometime in May. Proposals for the bylaws can lean on the KTA bylaws. Send us an E-Mail and we will post them to you. Michael Steltzer = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 20:21:12 -1000 From: axel@hal.hanse.de (Axel Voss) Message-Id: <792656472.44snx@hal.hanse.de> Organization: Private site Subject: Re: European Joint Aviation Authority In article <3gu5vt$3no$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> 100255.116@CompuServe.COM writes: > >We have just received a note regarding the Pan-European Joint >Aviation >Authority which is soon going to start "harmonisation" of >national >regulations (including kites). > >Some questions The Kite Society has been asked to answer are: > >3) Is there an association which specifically looks after the >interests of > European kite manufacturers (like the Kite Trade Association >in America)? Yes there is: There had been several endeavours to establish a German/European body as a counterpart to KTA International because many European members feel that their interests are not sufficiently represented by KTA Int. All this started after the Nuremberg Toy and Leisure Fair in January 1994 as an exercise suggested by DRACHENmagazin, Phoenix, Vom Winde Verweht, Drachentraumland (all Germany), Fly High (Austria), The Kite Company (UK). The response by potential German/European members was not overwhelmingly great and all this slacked down a bit until recently Michael Steltzer (Vom Winde Verweht) and Ina Berger (Drachentraumland) have trasnlated the bylaws of KTA into German and presented them during the kite trade meeting at the Nuremberg Show 1995. So far it is mainly a German endeavour but certainly other countries are strongly encouraged to cooperate. The organization is understood as independant but to cooperate closely with KTA Int. KTA Int. has agreed to provide a loan of US 5000,-- to help the new baby growing. By the way: Axel Voss (DRACHENmagazin) has been elected as a new member of the Board Of Directors of KTA International. Though mainly responsible for press-work and PR he certainly has a particular open ear for the needs of overseas KTA members and potential members. Tight Lines Axel = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =