Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 03:54:03 -1000 From: richard@harlequin.co.uk (Richard Brooksby) Message-Id: Organization: Harlequin Ltd Subject: Electric winders for fighting kites I am a fighting kite flier, and to get sensitivity and speed of control over the line I hold it directly in my hands. With a fighting kite you need to be able to let out a couple of metres of line at a moment's notice, and you need to be able to haul in quite fast too. This means you end up with a lot of line at your feet, and if you aren't very careful it gets tangled. In any case, when you bring the kite in you have trouble winding the line. I imagine a small winding device which would take in the slack at my feet without affecting the line between my hands and the kite. The device would have a low-torque but fast motor connected by a centrefugal clutch to a lightweight reel. The motor would come on when the line coming off the reel was `slack'. The centrefugal clutch means that when the motor is off (line taught) I can pull the line off the reel without friction and without turning the motor. Because the reel is light I would have very little resistance -- hopefully so little that it would enable me to recover a fighting kite dive. When the line goes slack because I've hauled the kite closer, the motor engages the reel and takes in the slack. What do you think? Is there any other device like this around? Has anyone else experimented with autmatic winders? How did they work, and how successful were they? I haven't built this device yet but I have a design. It is made out of standard modelling materials. -- Richard Brooksby +44 223 873881 (voice) +44 223 872519 (fax) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 09:18:34 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: Organization: Harvard University OIT/NSD Subject: Re: Electric winders for fighting kites In article , richard@harlequin.co.uk (Richard Brooksby) writes: >I am a fighting kite flier, and to get sensitivity and speed of control >over the line I hold it directly in my hands. With a fighting kite you >need to be able to let out a couple of metres of line at a moment's notice, >and you need to be able to haul in quite fast too. This means you end up >with a lot of line at your feet, and if you aren't very careful it gets >tangled. In any case, when you bring the kite in you have trouble winding >the line. > >I imagine a small winding device which would take in the slack at my feet >without affecting the line between my hands and the kite. That's what little brothers, children, and servants are for. I once talked to someone from India who said that often someone else would wind line in for the flyer. If the flyer was rich, that person would be a servent. It was also often for a son to wind his father's line and for brothers to wind each other's line. Some folks in Japan have baskets that they carry line in. As you bring your fighter in, you just let it lay in the bottom of the basket. Letting line out is easy too. I've watched folks fly on Korean reels and have marvelled at their skill. Here the line doesn't touch the fingers and the kite control is amazing. Having said all of this, here is my advice for flying fighters and not getting tangles: 1. Fly with a slightly stiff line. Waxed linen or waxed cotton is usually pretty good. 2. Stay in one place. Don't move around much. If you move around, move backwards slowly as you bring line in. 3. Never wind line from the bottom of the pile. If you have a pile of line that is attached to the kite, move off to the side and make another pile with the kite end on the bottom. Then you can wind onto your real. While I would certainly buy a gizmo like Richard talks about (I like gadgets) I have my doubts about whether it could do a better job than my small halo and a bit of care can do... -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 12:21:08 -1000 From: bugjon@aol.com (BUGJON) Message-Id: <2uvggk$r0l@search01.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Electric winders for fighting kites In article , richard@harlequin.co.uk (Richard Brooksby) writes: Richard, Why don't you look into automatic fly fishing reels. When you strip off line a spring is wound up. A lever releases the spring and winds in the line. It would probably work pretty well if you could find one with enough line capacity. However, I don't think it would be as fast as a good, large diameter japanese fighter kite reel. Jon = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 13:19:20 -1000 From: savage@meo.dec.com Message-Id: <9406302319.AA02449@cassava> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Re: Electric winders for fighting kites Richard wrote: >I am a fighting kite flier, and to get sensitivity and speed of control >over the line I hold it directly in my hands. With a fighting kite you >need to be able to let out a couple of metres of line at a moment's notice, >and you need to be able to haul in quite fast too. This means you end up >with a lot of line at your feet, and if you aren't very careful it gets >tangled. In any case, when you bring the kite in you have trouble winding >the line. Richard, I have only one single-line fighter - a Vic's Fighter - but I've had it for fifteen years now. I *think* I'm correct in saying I've never had a line tangle with that kite. In the absence of better authority I've developed my own way of working with Vic, and it involves a bi-directional sideways shuffle as you pull line in. Probably looks silly, but it seems to work. Moving slowly sideways as you lay down line results in a series of offset loops. It's difficult to describe in words. When I retrieve my kite, I pull it all the way down by hand, trying to make the loops on the ground as large as possible, and moving sideways across a baseline perpendicular to the wind. Once Vic is disconnected and safely stowed, I take the bridle end of the line and walk it right out - i.e. unravel the loops - they should just peel straight out. Then I go back to other end of the line and wind it onto a reel (a figure-8 winder would probably do as well). If you want to see a REAL line tangle, try letting go of one handle of a REV-II in a 15 knot wind!! :-( I've only done it once, and I decided that if I ever again had a handle slip from my sweaty grasp, I would simply let the other one fly as well. Retrieving a kite from somewhere downwind HAS to be a better proposition than untangling 4 x 75' lines!! Cheers, BigAl (savage@aladin.meo.dec.com) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 10:22:21 -1000 From: crowell@teleport.com (Carl Crowell) Message-Id: <2v1ttt$ff0@elaine.teleport.com> Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Subject: Re: Electric winders for fighting kites A nice Korean with a long handle can't be beat. It will take practice, and when you are good, switch from waxed natural fiber to kevlar thread. 1000 yards of kevlar thread is about 100 yards of linnen. carl -- crowell@teleport.COM Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-14400, N81) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 03:25:02 -1000 From: ahclem0013@aol.com (AhClem0013) Message-Id: <2v15fe$aq2@search01.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Electric winders for fighting kites In article , richard@harlequin.co.uk (Richard Brooksby) writes: about an electric device: Try a Korean Reel. aoxomoxoa = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 09:10:23 -1000 From: hjb@talkeetna.corp.sun.com (Hans Bauman) Message-Id: <2vcb6v$ees@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Subject: Re: Electric winders for fighting kites There is a device called Lectro-winder that I saw in the current Kite Lines. It is essentially a reel with a heaxagonal post on one end which you can screw into the chuck of a cordless drill. They wanted about $40 for this reel (without the drill, obviously). This seems a bit steep to me, but the idea might be a good one. Figure out a way to convert an old reel to accept a piece that could be hooked up to a drill. That way you won't be spending lots on a motor for only one purpose. hans = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 09:23:35 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: Organization: Equinox Networks Subject: Re: Electric winders for fighting kites savage@meo.dec.com wrote: : Richard wrote: : >I am a fighting kite flier, and to get sensitivity and speed of control : >over the line I hold it directly in my hands. With a fighting kite you : >need to be able to let out a couple of metres of line at a moment's notice, : >and you need to be able to haul in quite fast too. This means you end up : >with a lot of line at your feet, and if you aren't very careful it gets : >tangled. In any case, when you bring the kite in you have trouble winding : >the line. : Richard, > I have only one single-line fighter - a Vic's Fighter - but I've > had it for fifteen years now. I *think* I'm correct in saying > I've never had a line tangle with that kite. I now have a collection of about 20 fighters and line tangling never seems to be a problem. I use 4 inch diameter plain halo spools and a swivel. Unless I am in a hurry I wind in the line whilst keeping the kite flying until it is almost back into my hand. If in a hurry I ground the kite, unclip the swivel and wind in the line with the free end dragging along the ground, which removes the unwanted twist. All my tangling problems arise with 2-line kites, especially with braided lines. Mostly it is caused by carelessness on my part when attempting to save time recovering a crashed kite. All the time I might have saved is lost in the hours spent untangling the lines later :-( ...And I still keep making the same mistakes :-) Bye, = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 07:06:54 -1000 From: richard@djinn.cam.harlequin.co.uk (Richard Brooksby) Message-Id: Organization: Harlequin Ltd, Cambridge, UK Subject: Re: Electric winders for fighting kites In article Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) writes: Richard wrote: > I am a fighting kite flier, and to get sensitivity and speed of > control over the line I hold it directly in my hands. With a > fighting kite you need to be able to let out a couple of metres > of line at a moment's notice, and you need to be able to haul in > quite fast too. This means you end up with a lot of line at your > feet, and if you aren't very careful it gets tangled. In any > case, when you bring the kite in you have trouble winding the > line. I now have a collection of about 20 fighters and line tangling never seems to be a problem. I use 4 inch diameter plain halo spools and a swivel. Unless I am in a hurry I wind in the line whilst keeping the kite flying until it is almost back into my hand. I've had several responses along these lines, and I'm pretty sure we aren't talking about the same sort of flying. My kites are small and lively, and I don't think I could fly them without having the line in my hands, touching my fingertips. There is just _so_ much information coming down the line. Maybe I just don't have the skill. I've seen the Korean spools but I've not tried one. --- Richard Brooksby = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 09:51:35 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: Organization: Harvard University OIT/NSD Subject: Re: Electric winders for fighting kites In article , richard@djinn.cam.harlequin.co.uk (Richard Brooksby) writes: >I've had several responses along these lines, and I'm pretty sure we >aren't talking about the same sort of flying. My kites are small and >lively, and I don't think I could fly them without having the line in >my hands, touching my fingertips. There is just _so_ much information >coming down the line. Maybe I just don't have the skill. I've seen >the Korean spools but I've not tried one. I think it's the same sort of flying. Possibly Colin, and others, is flying a slower fighter than you are used to. I can usually time things so that as I wind the kite in, I wind only when the nose is pointed up, a few quick wraps, then a small wait for the nose to point up again, and another quick wrap or two. During other times of flying, I let the line lay on the ground and remind myself to stay put so that I don't get tangled in the line. A good flyer using a Korean style spool is a wonder to watch. Because of the smoothness of the reel, long swooping straight line flight is possible even with large kites which require lots of line handling. I have trouble with Korean fighters because they require more line (both letting out and pulling in) than the fighters that I usually fly. Some day I will learn to use one of these things... -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =