Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 23:57:51 -1000 From: mcrother@bfsec.bt.co.uk (MARK Crothers) Message-Id: Organization: British Telecommunications, Belfast Subject: Diamond Kite Problem Hi Folks, I've been reading this group for a few months now and most of the discussion seems to concern power kites so this question might seem a little out dated, but here goes: I've got a single line, traditional-shape diamond kite which basically refuses to fly. It gets a few metres into the sky and then goes into a terminal spin - it loops around in very tight circles and eventually crashes. This happens every time I try to fly it. I've tried moving the bridle attachment point both closer to, and away >From the top but it doesn't make any difference - same spinning, same crashing. The tail consists of three light pieces of ribbon streamer - does this need to be heavier/lighter? This isn't a home-made job - I bought it for my son, so any help you could provide would be much appreciated by both him and myself. Thanks, Mark Crothers B.T. Belfast Software Engineering Centre Northern Ireland mcrothers@bfsec.bt.co.uk = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 08:33:18 -1000 From: silent1@ix.netcom.com (Donald Qualls) Message-Id: <3h5q1e$c5m@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> Organization: Netcom Subject: Re: Diamond Kite Problem In mcrother@bfsec.bt.co.uk (MARK Crothers) writes: > > >Hi Folks, > >I've been reading this group for a few months now and most of the >discussion seems to concern power kites so this question might seem >a little out dated, but here goes: > >I've got a single line, traditional-shape diamond kite which basically >refuses to fly. It gets a few metres into the sky and then goes into a >terminal spin - it loops around in very tight circles and eventually >crashes. This happens every time I try to fly it. > >I've tried moving the bridle attachment point both closer to, and away >from the top but it doesn't make any difference - same spinning, same >crashing. > >The tail consists of three light pieces of ribbon streamer - does this >need to be heavier/lighter? > >This isn't a home-made job - I bought it for my son, so any help you >could provide would be much appreciated by both him and myself. > I've had similar problem with those in the past. There are two basic things that can be done. First, as you guessed, is a longer, heavier tail. This won't completely cure the problem, as the kite will still cant over toward the side it now spins to, but it might let you fly it in brisk winds. The other thing is to examine the sail for assymetry. My guess is that you have more tension in one side than the other, causing the lift to differ. Assuming this is a commercial paper-covered diamond, you may be able to improve this by sliding the bottom (the bottom is the bigger offender) of the spine >toward< the side it spins to -- this will increase the tension on that portion of the sail, and decrease it on the other, and should improve the situation. If it does, or if the kite starts spinning the other way, you can then fine-tune things to get a reasonably stable flight. Another thing that might help is to increase the bow of the cross stick, by tying on a tensioning string. I used to fly these with about 3-5 cm clearance between the bow string and the cross stick; at that setting, and with a little careful spine adjustment, they frequently needed no tail at all! -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | silent1@ix.netcom.com | If knowledge is power, why don't scientists | | Owner/Operator of | rule the world? | | TableTop Publications | Because they treat truth as a virtue! | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | All opinions expressed are my own, and should in no way be mistaken | | for those of the reader. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 07:22:20 -1000 From: sasaki@netope.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <3h5lsc$5eg@netope.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Diamond Kite Problem In article , mcrother@bfsec.bt.co.uk (MARK Crothers) writes: |>I've been reading this group for a few months now and most of the |>discussion seems to concern power kites so this question might seem |>a little out dated, but here goes: Folks should feel free to ask or start a discussion about any type of kite or kite related activity. Please don't be intimidated. If it is about kites, we should talk about it here on rec.kites. |>I've got a single line, traditional-shape diamond kite which basically |>refuses to fly. It gets a few metres into the sky and then goes into a |>terminal spin - it loops around in very tight circles and eventually |>crashes. This happens every time I try to fly it. Does this kite have a bow string or is it flat? If it has a bow string, then you need to increase the bow by shortening the string. If the kite is flat, then add more drag with more tail. |>I've tried moving the bridle attachment point both closer to, and away |>from the top but it doesn't make any difference - same spinning, same |>crashing. If you remember where it was, put the bridle back to where it was before you started your experimentation. Once you get the spinning under control, try moving the bridle up and down (in small amounts) to see how the kite responds. Generaly, moving it down will make the kite more lively, it will tend to move around a bit. Moving it up will make it steadier. |>The tail consists of three light pieces of ribbon streamer - does this |>need to be heavier/lighter? With tails, it isn't so much the weight, but the drag that is important. Ribbon streamers don't add much drag. The old bed sheet cloth tails are actually pretty good about providing drag. One last thing, make sure that the cross stick is on the back side of the kite... -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@harvard.edu Network Services Division 90 Melrose Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Arlington, MA 02174 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-646-1925 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 14:18:39 -1000 From: 221 <71224.221@CompuServe.COM> From: Harry Gregory/Nancy Lockwood 71224@das.harvard.edu Message-Id: <3hebcv$c6i$2@mhade.production.compuserve.com> Organization: O.S.E.K. / Flyin Free Subject: Re: Diamond Kite Problem Your first problem is the BRIDLE. I'd bet it's too short. The top leg should stand away from the body of the kite at LEAST as far as from the center to the outer wing edge, if it's shorter than that, spin is inevitable. Second, lengthen the tail, do NOT make it heavier, make it longer. Length stabilizes the kite, and you might try David Pelham's "rule of thumb": 7x width of kite. Is this a Decorator kite made of heavy taffeta with a zoomy design on it? They weren't really made to fly, and are usually not properly proportioned. A really GOOD diamond kite can be structured quite easily, making it AS WIDE AS IT IS TALL, and positioning the cross spar 1/5th of the distance from the top. Cover with a sail made of anything, and if it's balanced right, you won't even need a tail. Someone mentioned bow string. It helps. Putting a bow in the sail gives it dihedral. Good luck ! Fly free ! Nancy -- I'am Just Down The line. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 11:30:14 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: Diamond Kite Problem >If you remember where it was, put the bridle back to where it was >before you started your experimentation. Yep. Look closely at the bridle-line. You might be lucky - there might be a mark showing where the middle of the knot should be. Andrew -- Does a Rev War Kite have 4 lines and fly on Manja? o /\ Kite Jumping: Read the Kite FAQ's: ftp.hawaii.edu:/pub/rec/kites/faq |_ \/ If you want For sale: Prototype Keelless Rowlands Flowform. US$80 (_\ to fly, use a Kite Fliers Site: http://www.kfs.org/kites andrew@tug.com Hangglider = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 03:01:09 -1000 From: mcrother@bfsec.bt.co.uk (MARK Crothers) Message-Id: Organization: British Telecommunications, Belfast Subject: Re: Diamond Kite Problem Thanks to all who replied to my request for help with an uncontrollable diamond kite. Most of the responses recommended a tail with much more drag than the original multi sreamer/ribbon affair. I attached a 5 metre tail from an old stunt kite, planning to cut this down if it proved too heavy for the diamond. I tried it out on Sunday and the kite flew beautifully !!! Thanks again, Mark P.S. The diamond is now my son's "favourite" - praise indeed. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Crothers B.T. Belfast Software Engineering Centre Northern Ireland mcrothers@bfsec.bt.co.uk = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =