From: rloiseau@aol.com (RLoiseau) Subject: Designing an indoor stunter. Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 16:42:44 -1000 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Message-ID: <4khrj4$9ko@newsbf02.news.aol.com> While reading about all the super ultralight kites I noticed they weren't really trick kites. I realize the Millenium, VP, AMI, and Bad boy can all axled, cascaded, ect. But they dont have the edge that the BoT, Trix, stranger, ect has. I want to build a full size, indoor, trick kite from .1580" AFC. (yes, this will be a bit flexible, but think of how soft the X4i is. No reason a full cant be like that also.) anyway, my question is, can I make a indoor trick kite, or do I have to make it a little more low aspect, deeper sail to add lift while sacrificing a radical edge? Thanks!! Robin Levick RLoiseau@aol.com(the bird) Transcendent kites Robin Levick = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: jburka@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Subject: Re: Designing an indoor stunter. Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 04:33:32 -1000 Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park, MD Message-ID: <4kj57t$4mt@gis.umd.edu> In article <4khrj4$9ko@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, RLoiseau wrote: >While reading about all the super ultralight kites I noticed they weren't >really trick kites. I realize the Millenium, VP, AMI, and Bad boy can all >axled, cascaded, ect. But they dont have the edge that the BoT, Trix, >stranger, ect has. Most of the heavy duty tricks like you'd do with, say, a Box, require inertia and wind. In other words, taking a radical design and making it super light doesn't mean that you'll be able to do all those wacky tricks indoors. Just ask Brian Vanderslice about his SUL Slicer. I've watched him fly the standard in outdoor demos and been impressed, and I've watched him attempting to fly a "light enough" version indoors, and felt bad for him. Fizz has already put out the official word that there's not SUL BoT because they haven't been able to make one fly well enough. The "Ultralight" Stranger, 1/2oz icky on shark5's, is still quite heavy. Dunno if anybody's tried one in 3's or another SUL stick, but I wouldn't expect much performance from it. >anyway, my question is, can I make a indoor trick kite, or do I have to If you pull it off, more power to you! Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | Pithy, insightful quote to be inserted when one | |jburka@glue.umd.edu | occurs to me. *If* one occurs to me. | |http://www.wam.umd.edu/~jeffy/html/home.html | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: bluekites@inmind.com (BlueKites) Subject: Re: Designing an indoor stunter. Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 12:56:45 -1000 Organization: Blue Ridge Kites Message-ID: <4kk6kc$mk2@mujibur.inmind.com> In article <4khrj4$9ko@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, rloiseau@aol.com (RLoiseau) wrote: >anyway, my question is, can I make a indoor trick kite, or do I have to >make it a little more low aspect, deeper sail to add lift while >sacrificing a radical edge? One of the reasons that indoor "tricks" are different than outdoor ones is that most of the tricks require a certian amount of mass to work effectively. Take an axel for example a kite that is too light will not begin to roll when given the "tug", it will instead react to the "tug" by coming towards you or partially starting the roll but not completing it due to a lack of inertia that stems from a lack of mass. Some of the other tricks that you talk about also are mass or inertia based in the sense that the kite needs the ability to fall etc. As for the flexibility of the frame, you will sacrafice "trickability" with a flexable frame. If you have a very flexible center spine, then the sharp actions needed to produce tricks will be turned muddy by the give in the kite. The .1550 rods that you mention would have a significant amount of mass and you would be able to do some tricks with the kite. As for the design, deep vs shallow is up to you. I prefer deeper sails, but there is reason to have a flatter sail for indoor kites: less drag, less weight etc. Experiment and report what you find. As for the aspect ratio, higher aspect kites generally do have beeter lift, so you would be going in the right direction by trying to develop an indoor kite based on some of the higher aspect "trick" designs. Good luck. James Ervin/Blue Ridge Kites/Check out the new kite page at bluekites@inmind.com/ http://www.inmind.com/people/jervin/kites.html (540) 586-9590 And the new Benjamin Kite Cartoon at http://www.inmind.com/people/jervin/ben.html ____________________________________________________________________ Can I go home now? My brain is full. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: lord@eskimo.com (David Lord) Subject: Re: Designing an indoor stunter. Message-ID: Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 20:01:53 -1000 In article <4khrj4$9ko@newsbf02.news.aol.com> rloiseau@aol.com (RLoiseau) writes: >Xref: eskimo rec.kites:25954 >Path: >eskimo!news.sprintlink.net!HiWAAY.net!acara.snsnet.net!news5.crl.com!nntp.crl.co >m!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.ao >l.com!not-for-mail >From: rloiseau@aol.com (RLoiseau) >Newsgroups: rec.kites >Subject: Designing an indoor stunter. >Date: 10 Apr 1996 22:42:44 -0400 >Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) >Lines: 19 >Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com >Message-ID: <4khrj4$9ko@newsbf02.news.aol.com> >NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com >X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader >While reading about all the super ultralight kites I noticed they weren't >really trick kites. I realize the Millenium, VP, AMI, and Bad boy can all >axled, cascaded, ect. But they dont have the edge that the BoT, Trix, >stranger, ect has. >I want to build a full size, indoor, trick kite from .1580" AFC. (yes, >this will be a bit flexible, but think of how soft the X4i is. No reason >a full cant be like that also.) >anyway, my question is, can I make a indoor trick kite, or do I have to >make it a little more low aspect, deeper sail to add lift while >sacrificing a radical edge? >Thanks!! >Robin Levick >RLoiseau@aol.com(the bird) >Transcendent kites Robin Levick Robin Using 1580 pultrude spars for an indoor kite should work quite well. I have made several low/no wind kites with very high aspect ratios using spars only a little stiffer. Scale your kite to use two 1580 spars for the leading edge. If you go to a very high aspect ratio the lower spreaders will show the stress first. Your kite will probably be no more flexible than those that use the ultralight tapered spars. They trade stiffness to get more robustness. Hi aspect kites inherently have better L/D than low aspect kites. Go for your design. Dave Lord Dave Lord lord@eskimo.com check out http://www.eskimo.com/~lord = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =