Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 09:35:08 -1000 From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-Id: <1993Aug4.193508.22775@nic.funet.fi> Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET Subject: Cutting the line (Was: Re: Walk down device) In andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) writes: >salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) writes: >>Well, if the marine pulley is as useless as you and Patrick >>predict, I should find it out pretty soon. However, if I can >>rescue a kite and/or avoid injuries in a "heavy" landing >>situation, just once - the pulley is worth of it's price. >Don't foget that if it comes to risking like and limb, you can always >cut the line. If flying in heavy conditions, you may care to consider >anchoring with a short length of sacrificial line that you wouldn't mind >cutting, to get the thing down. Remember that with the line cut, a soft kite >collapses and doesn't drift as far as you might expect. Alternatively, >it is easy to rig a control line that destroys the shape, causing the >thing to fall out of the sky. Well, if there is empty space. If there are people, the uncontrolled line can be like a flying knife. Smooth Winds Simo >Andrew >-- >Work: gaffer@plx.com Phone: +44 793 614 110 Fax: +44 793 614 297 >Play: andrew@tug.com Phone: +44 256 464 912 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 01:34:54 -1000 From: pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Patrick Prosser) Message-Id: <23qr8u$5b9@kelvin-02.cs.strath.ac.uk> Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland. Subject: Re: Cutting the line (Was: Re: Walk down device) It still hurts .... I have a 120 sq foot parafoil in Loch Lomond, along with 300ft of line, and ground anchors. Cutting the line as a last resort is not a good idea, as the line can generate enough drag such that the foil retains some of its shape, and thus flies/travels (I know this from experience, we also saw the same occur in Washington with one of the large "show" kites, ending up miles away in a tree). I also agree with Simo, 300ft of line dragging about is VERY dangerous, not just because it can cut, but because someone can get caught up in it (I believe someone was nearly killed in the USA recently due to this, some wee girl playing with the bridle of a parafoil). I tried putting a control line onto my 132 sq foot flow form. Essentially this line was at the FRONT of the kite, and it was intended that I could pull on this line and get the foil to "over fly". It didn't work. However I am 100ure that a line connected to (say) the bottom left hand corner of the trailing edge will work. I should be able to steer the kite to the ground (I know this will work because a 1/2 inch adjustment on the bridle, all of 10m long, on the outside keel generates a significant list). Patrick get-down Prosser = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 10:39:54 -1000 From: brian@nds.com (Brian Dockter) Message-Id: <9308051340.aa08671@nds.nds.COM> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Re: Cutting the line (Was: Re: Walk down device) On Aug 5, 12:34pm, Patrick Prosser wrote: > Subject: Re: Cutting the line (Was: Re: Walk down device) > I tried putting a control line onto my 132 sq foot flow form. > Essentially this line was at the FRONT of the kite, and > it was intended that I could pull on this line and get the > foil to "over fly". It didn't work. However I am 100ure that > a line connected to (say) the bottom left hand corner of the > trailing edge will work. I should be able to steer the kite to the > ground (I know this will work because a 1/2 inch adjustment on the > bridle, all of 10m long, on the outside keel generates a significant > list). > === END OF EXCERPT === Why not attach the line at the center of the kite? When you pull on the line, the kite should fold up on itself, and fall to the ground. (At the very least, it should reduce the pull to allow the kite to be brought down more easily.) Brian -- Brian Dockter | Northwest Digital Systems UUCP: uunet!nds!brian | Voice: 206-524-0014 Internet: brian@nds.com | FAX: 206-524-3440 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 12:34:58 -1000 From: Darrin.Skinner@ebay.sun.com (Darrin Skinner) Message-Id: <9308052234.AA02633@stuntkite.EBay.Sun.COM> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Re: Cutting the line (Was: Re: Walk down device) -] From kites-request@das.harvard.edu Thu Aug 5 15:22:46 1993 -] To: kites@das.harvard.edu -] Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 20:39:54 GMT -] From: brian@nds.com (Brian Dockter) -] Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University -] Sender: kites-request@das.harvard.edu -] Subject: Re: Cutting the line (Was: Re: Walk down device) -] Content-Length: 1380 -] -] On Aug 5, 12:34pm, Patrick Prosser wrote: -] > Subject: Re: Cutting the line (Was: Re: Walk down device) -] > I tried putting a control line onto my 132 sq foot flow form. -] > Essentially this line was at the FRONT of the kite, and -] > it was intended that I could pull on this line and get the -] > foil to "over fly". It didn't work. However I am 100ure that -] > a line connected to (say) the bottom left hand corner of the -] > trailing edge will work. I should be able to steer the kite to the -] > ground (I know this will work because a 1/2 inch adjustment on the -] > bridle, all of 10m long, on the outside keel generates a significant -] > list). -] > === END OF EXCERPT === -] -] Why not attach the line at the center of the kite? When you pull on the -] line, the kite should fold up on itself, and fall to the ground. (At the -] very least, it should reduce the pull to allow the kite to be brought -] down more easily.) -] -] Brian -] I've seen Bob Anderson (owner of the worlds largest Spin Sock) attach a line to the center of the trailing edge. He runs the line up the fly line with enough slack/play in the line so that it does not affect the normal flight of the foil. He stakes this line to a SEPERATE stake. The idea here is that if the main line breaks (or gets loose) the foil will fly downwind, the slack on the safety line will get taken up and the foil will end up flying from the line attached to the trailing edge (no pull, no lift, no flight). I've seen him use this _safety_ line to take the kite down in high winds (high winds in Berkeley? NEVER! :) ) and it works quite well. Darrin -] = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 12:06:48 -1000 From: allanc@syacus.acus.oz.au (Allan Charlton) Message-Id: Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, ACUS Subject: Re: Cutting the line (Was: Re: Walk down device) pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Patrick Prosser) writes: >It still hurts .... I have a 120 sq foot parafoil in Loch >Lomond, along with 300ft of line, and ground anchors. >Cutting the line as a last resort is not a good idea, as [stuff deleted, because there is nothing to say, but commisserations] >I also agree with Simo, 300ft of line dragging about is VERY >dangerous, not just because it can cut, but because someone >can get caught up in it (I believe someone was nearly killed >in the USA recently due to this, some wee girl playing with >the bridle of a parafoil). At an Australian Championship at Cairns, a girl who played with someone's parafoil on the ground was lifted a considerable distance into the air when a gust filled the foil and launched it. She survived, but it could have killed her. However, this is a different situation. I agree; a fast-moving line is both a noose and a flying knife. >I tried putting a control line onto my 132 sq foot flow form. >Essentially this line was at the FRONT of the kite, and I have flown a flowform with control lines. I fitted two, one on each rear corner. With the flying line tethered, I could steer the kite around the sky - sort of (it's a _big_ flowform). When the wind got worryingly strong, I steered the flowform to the ground with one of the control lines. It worked like a charm, and I recommend it. This was done at a festival with a friend's ff. Mine, under construction and about 120 square feet, will have tabs sewn all along the trailing edge. I rather like the idea of permanently fitting two control lines to the trailing edge corners, and running them to the tow point on the bridle. Then, I can (or not, depending on the weather) fit a pair of control lines that run up the flying line. That will keep them neat, and out of the way of running children, dogs, and straying adults. So that's the plan, and the reason. I hope it works :-) Allan Charlton allanc@syacus.acus.oz.au = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =