Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 10:38:20 -1000 From: sasaki@netopd.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <40b6bs$ntr@netope.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University - OIT/NSD Subject: Re: Bridles & MEFM In article <40aubf$b4a$1@mhafm.production.compuserve.com>, Gene Schroeder <74537.445@CompuServe.COM> writes: |>My new MEFM definately has "by your description", a Turbo bridle |>and to follow the original thread, (was MEFM tuning), I hope you |>get a chance to experiment with it and finish that part of your |>treatise on bridles. The MEFM should have one line going from the top spreader connector to the center T fitting. The other line should be attached to this line and to the lower spreader connector. If your bridle is not attached in this manner, then someone has been playing with your bridle. It is not a turbo bridle where one line goes from the top spreader to the bottom spreader and another line goes from this line to the center T fitting. |>I have had so little luck tuning it to very low wind that I |>usually just pull out the Jaberwocky in frustration. It's all |>they claim in 10-12 MPH winds but that also is close to the "as |>delivered" bridle conditions. Almost every combination I have |>tried has been .NOT. an improvement ... but, I am sure that is a |>reflection on the skills of the adjuster and not the kite. Talk to the kite shop that sold you the kite, or possibly to Big Easy Kites. You should not have any problems flying the MEFM in light winds. With less than 3 you will have to work, and it will require some skill to get the kite to do things, but it will fly in very light wind. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 90 Melrose Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Arlington, MA 02174 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-646-1925 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 08:21:35 -1000 From: Gene Schroeder <74537.445@CompuServe.COM> Message-Id: <40aubf$b4a$1@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Subject: Bridles & MEFM sasaki@noc.harvard.edu (Marty) wrote A great and informative article to help us newbys understand the science/witchcraft/art of bridle adjustments. and Philippe Lepez answered >The Turbo bridle: >I allways have thaugth that the MEFM had a Turbo bridle My new MEFM definately has "by your description", a Turbo bridle and to follow the original thread, (was MEFM tuning), I hope you get a chance to experiment with it and finish that part of your treatise on bridles. I have had so little luck tuning it to very low wind that I usually just pull out the Jaberwocky in frustration. It's all they claim in 10-12 MPH winds but that also is close to the "as delivered" bridle conditions. Almost every combination I have tried has been .NOT. an improvement ... but, I am sure that is a reflection on the skills of the adjuster and not the kite. Help is on the way ??? = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 02:29:03 -1000 From: sritter@umi.com Message-Id: <9508101229.AA17989@umi7.umi.com> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: Bridles & MEFM In article <40aubf$b4a$1@mhafm.production.compuserve.com>, Gene Schroeder <74537.445@CompuServe.COM> writes: |>My new MEFM definately has "by your description", a Turbo bridle |>and to follow the original thread, (was MEFM tuning), I hope you |>get a chance to experiment with it and finish that part of your |>treatise on bridles. Marty Wrote: >The MEFM should have one line going from the top spreader connector to >the center T fitting. The other line should be attached to this line >and to the lower spreader connector. If your bridle is not attached in >this manner, then someone has been playing with your bridle. >It is not a turbo bridle where one line goes from the top spreader to >the bottom spreader and another line goes from this line to the center >T fitting. Err. . . Marty, just to clear up confusion on one of our parts: Ray Borderlon came out with the infinity bridle on the EFM 3 years ago or so, correct? I don't remember exactly when. Well what you are describing as the turbo bridle is on my EFM and MEFM as what I know as the infinity bridle. I traded for the EFM about three years ago and I bought my MEFM new about 2 years ago, and like I said, both kites have the same bridle. The EFM could have had someone mess with the bridle, but I seriously doubt that someone messed around with my *new* MEFM. I bought it from Chicago Kite Co. where I doubt they have time to mess with bridles on their kites for sale. Has Ray put two different types of bridles on his production *EFMs? Good Winds Sam = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 06:49:13 -1000 From: sasaki@netopd.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <40dda9$hth@netope.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University - OIT/NSD Subject: Re: Bridles & MEFM In article <9508101229.AA17989@umi7.umi.com>, sritter@umi.com writes: |>Marty Wrote: |>>The MEFM should have one line going from the top spreader connector to |>>the center T fitting. The other line should be attached to this line |>>and to the lower spreader connector. If your bridle is not attached in |>>this manner, then someone has been playing with your bridle. |> |>>It is not a turbo bridle where one line goes from the top spreader to |>>the bottom spreader and another line goes from this line to the center |>>T fitting. |> |>Well what you are describing as the turbo bridle is on my EFM and MEFM |>as what I know as the infinity bridle. I traded for the EFM about |>three years ago and I bought my MEFM new about 2 years ago, and like I |>said, both kites have the same bridle. The EFM could have had someone |>mess with the bridle, but I seriously doubt that someone messed around |>with my *new* MEFM. I bought it from Chicago Kite Co. where I doubt |>they have time to mess with bridles on their kites for sale. Well, I'm completely confused now. I thought that Ray's bridle was different than the Turbo bridle, but I just checked and sure enough, the Infinity bridle appears to be the same as the Turbo bridle. So, I take back what I said before. I don't know why I thought what I thought, maybe too much time in the sun... In any case, here's another way to think about adjusting the bridles. The flying line attachment point, also called the "pick point" can be adjusted: - up and down (towards the nose or towards the tail) - inward and outward (towards the spine, away from the spine). Moving the pick point up increases forward speed and increases turning radius. Moving the bridle down decreases forward speed and decreases the turning radius. Moving the pick point out increases the turning speed, and possibly decreases the turning radius. It also makes the kite more "radical" and increases the oversteer. Moving the pick point in decreases turning speed and makes the kite less radical and reduces the oversteer. The Turbo/Infinity bridle adds a wrinkle by effectively lowering the pick point when the kite is in a turn, allowing faster, tighter turns, but maintaining stable straight line flight. Let's see how I can stick my foot in my mouth about the Stranger's bridle now... -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 90 Melrose Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Arlington, MA 02174 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-646-1925 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 05:53:25 -1000 From: jburka@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <40da1l$1r5@geog25.umd.edu> Organization: Project Glue, University of Maryland, College Park Subject: Re: Bridles & MEFM In article <9508101229.AA17989@umi7.umi.com>, wrote: >Err. . . Marty, just to clear up confusion on one of our parts: Ray >Borderlon came out with the infinity bridle on the EFM 3 years ago >or so, correct? I don't remember exactly when. I think the infinity bridle made its debut at the first Old Dominion SKC (early April '92). >Has Ray put two different types of bridles on his production *EFMs? Well, before the infinity bridle in '92, there were a number of EFMs (the original MEFM, 1/2oz nylon on 2wrap advantage didn't show up for a little while) made without the standard bridles. The original EFM had a regular, phantom-style bridle (in-haul as opposed to out-haul), did not have the various spacers and swappable upper spreaders, and did not have the bungee on the the stand-off tensioning line (it wasn't particularly necessary since the aspect ratio wasn't changeable). As Ray started making broad changes to the kite, he sent out the goods to update old kites to a lot of owners. At this point, I know of only one EFM which is truly original in its frame and fittings. (it's also got a custom sail which is one of the *ugliest* kites I've ever seen). Incidentally, the EFM was originally called the Marriah (um, I think that was the spelling they used). Unfortunately, Trilogy had just released the Moriah (a vented kite), so Big Easy changed the name of their new kite. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | Pithy, insightful quote to be inserted when one | |jburka@glue.umd.edu | occurs to me. *If* one occurs to me. | |http://www.wam.umd.edu/~jeffy/html/home.html | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 20:54:04 -1000 From: rickvoss@aol.com (Rick Voss) Message-Id: <40k7ic$3sm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Bridles & MEFM Hi Marty, I have been reading everything that i can find about bridles in rec.kites & elsewhere. Alot of what i have read is contradictory, but always interests me. I have always thought that moving the pick point further apart would decrease oversteer & "radicalness" (all else staying equal). i wonder if it is possible that moving the pick point out or in could have opposite effects on different kites--(probably unlikely) ??? Maybe it has to do with moving further from the sweet spot in either direction---- (probably unlikely)???? Enjoyed the article, & i appreciate all the great info you are always sharing with us. Rick = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 05:16:56 -1000 From: sasaki@netopd.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <40npd8$egj@netope.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University - OIT/NSD Subject: Re: Bridles & MEFM In article <40k7ic$3sm@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, rickvoss@aol.com (Rick Voss) writes: |>Hi Marty, I have been reading everything that i can find about bridles in |>rec.kites & elsewhere. Alot of what i have read is contradictory, but |>always interests me. This is what makes life interesting... ;-) !> I have always thought that moving the pick point |>further apart would decrease oversteer & "radicalness" (all else staying |>equal). i wonder if it is possible that moving the pick point out or in |>could have opposite effects on different kites--(probably unlikely) ??? |>Maybe it has to do with moving further from the sweet spot in either |>direction---- (probably unlikely)???? My experience has been that moving the pick points apart may increase the oversteer and the radicalness of a kite. It definitely increases the top turning speed of a kite. However, some kites don't deal with short outhauls at all and performance degrades quickly away from the "sweet spot". All kites have a point where performance degrades with any adjustment. It is possible that the kites you have played with are at this limit, shortening the outhauls has only a detrimental effect. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 90 Melrose Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Arlington, MA 02174 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-646-1925 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =