Date: Mon, 26 Dec 1994 22:37:38 -1000 From: crowell@teleport.com (Carl Crowell) Message-Id: Organization: Kites By Carl Crowell Subject: Re: Bell Tetrahedral Kites aweitz@CAM.ORG (Andrew Weitzman) writes: > Is there a book which deals solely with the properties of this group >of kites? As an ultralight fan, I would like to see if it would be >possible to create a *powered* version of Bell's _Cygnet_; a book >delineating physical/aerodynamic properties would be invaluable. It is my understanding that Bell made at least one powered tetrahedral based flying machine. I do not know as to weather or not it flew. As for being an ultralight, Bells kites/flying devices were VERY heavy. The principal of the tetrahedral can be used in a lighter form if a molecular style terahedral is used as opposed to Bells geodesic style tetrahedral. More interesting, than the attempts at flight through this system, I think, are the other applications of the design. Bell applied the tetrahedral system to building flying crowns, a modern day version is now popularized by a Mr. Andre Cassanges (sp? crazy french names... whats wrong with smith we should all be named smith) and recently in a more dubious version by a North American by the name of Pete Dolphin. Though Bell failed in the goal of powered flight through his design, he succeded in tethered flight. This is not due to a failure in the materials or his inability to build a good device, but more in the basic goal of his project. We have to remember that Bell did not want to use a wing. He knew of the theory and made every effort to avoid winged flight. In his opinion there were too many uncertanties and the wing was unsafe. We now know and depend of the uncertainties that Bell tried to aviod. We call it the Bernoulli effect, and depend on it every time we fly. good luck ___________________________________________________ email: crowell@teleport.com FTP: ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/crowell WWW: http://www.teleport.com/~crowell Kites By Carl Crowell - O.S.F.M. World Headquarters = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 04:12:11 -1000 From: aweitz@CAM.ORG (Andrew Weitzman) Message-Id: <3dp7br$4g5@ocean.CAM.ORG> Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada Subject: Bell Tetrahedral Kites I've had a low-key interest in the tetrahedral kites invented by Alexander Graham Bell. The main reason for this is the fact Bell was actually able to build a man-carrying lifting body from the design. Is there a book which deals solely with the properties of this group of kites? As an ultralight fan, I would like to see if it would be possible to create a *powered* version of Bell's _Cygnet_; a book delineating physical/aerodynamic properties would be invaluable. -- ------------------------------------------------- Andrew Weitzman aweitz@CAM.org alt.devilbunnies characters: N!klot, Jeremy Hillis, Dr. Lawrence Kralk, and Admiral Marlin! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 12:54:16 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: Bell Tetrahedral Kites In article <3dp7br$4g5@ocean.cam.org> aweitz@CAM.ORG (Andrew Weitzman) writes: > I've had a low-key interest in the tetrahedral kites invented by >Alexander Graham Bell. [...] > Is there a book which deals solely with the properties of this group >of kites? Patric Prosser's article in "The Kiteflier", Jan 1993 makes extensive use of the original paper: The Tetrahedral Principle in Kite Structure (National Geographic Magazine, vol 14, part 6, 1903, page 219-251, by Alexander Graham Bell. It is a very advanced design, offering both stability and high strenght-to-weight. Andrew -- Kite FAQ's: ftp.hawaii.edu:/pub/rec/kites/faq) o /\ Kite Jumping For sale: 10' Flexis with std & UF Spars. |_ \/ is for andrew@tug.com AoXoMoXoA (_\ M O R O N S = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 23:12:34 -1000 From: johnsen@eskimo.com (Brian Johnsen) Message-Id: Organization: Cap'n Puget's Roadside Daco Stand Subject: Re: Bell Tetrahedral Kites In article , Carl Crowell wrote: >aweitz@CAM.ORG (Andrew Weitzman) writes: [ ] >We have to remember that Bell did not want to use a wing. He knew of the >theory and made every effort to avoid winged flight. In his opinion there >were too many uncertanties and the wing was unsafe. We now know and depend of >the uncertainties that Bell tried to aviod. We call it the Bernoulli effect, >and depend on it every time we fly. Bell also firmly believed in Direct Current power and spent thousands of dollars defaming Tesla's promotion of Alternating Current for power distribution. Bell had a number of cats and dogs electrocuted by AC to prove how dangerous it was. He had an elephant zapped as well, but the current had to be applied several times to kill it dead. Bell is not one of my heros, but he was a superb marketeer. Yet today power is delivered to a great number of points using AC developed by someone hardly anyone knows about. Guess Bell didn't always know best. -- Outside a dog, a kite is man's best friend. Inside a dog there's no room to fly indoors. -- Brian Johnsen johnsen@eskimo.com Seattle, Washington, USA = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 11:42:37 -1000 From: td@research.att.com (Tom Duff 0112730) Message-Id: Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ Subject: Re: Bell Tetrahedral Kites Brian Johnsen johnsen@eskimo.com avers: > Bell also firmly believed in Direct Current power and spent thousands of >dollars defaming Tesla's promotion of Alternating Current for power >distribution. Bell had a number of cats and dogs electrocuted by AC to >prove how dangerous it was. He had an elephant zapped as well, but the >current had to be applied several times to kill it dead. Are you sure of this? Bell had no direct interest in power transmission. Edison, on the other hand, had a strong proprietary interest in DC power transmission (he held a number of important patents, and the competing AC technology was tied up by others.) In addition, while Tesla invented a number of important AC devices (3-phase motors and generators, partiuclarly), he did so as a Westinghouse employee (or perhaps he sold the rights to Westinghouse). It was Westinghouse that `promoted' AC power transmission, not Tesla. Can you quote sources on this matter? If not, I'd suggest that you become better informed before attacking Bell for a position that I'm fairly sure he never held. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 11:03:57 -1000 From: sture.karlsson@ct.pp.se (Sture Karlsson) Message-Id: Organization: TP CT AB Subject: Re: Bell Tetrahedral Kites In article <3dp7br$4g5@ocean.CAM.ORG>, aweitz@CAM.ORG (Andrew Weitzman) wrote: > I've had a low-key interest in the tetrahedral kites invented by > Alexander Graham Bell. The main reason for this is the fact Bell was > actually able to build a man-carrying lifting body from the design. > > Is there a book which deals solely with the properties of this group > of kites? As an ultralight fan, I would like to see if it would be > possible to create a *powered* version of Bell's _Cygnet_; a book > delineating physical/aerodynamic properties would be invaluable. > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------- > Andrew Weitzman aweitz@CAM.org > alt.devilbunnies characters: N!klot, Jeremy Hillis, Dr. Lawrence Kralk, > and Admiral Marlin! As working with the swedish packaging company Tetra Pak as well as kiter I'm sincerly interested interested in your findings . Tetra Pak started with the only product, the tetrahedral package for liquid food, back in the 1950'th and now we produce appr. 80 000 000 000 packages per year around the world.... The historic bakground boosst yt interest in tetrahedral kites.. as you can understand Brgds Sture sture.karlsson@ct.pp.se = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 17:19:19 -1000 From: silntobsvr@aol.com (SilntObsvr) Message-Id: <3dt9rn$ca7@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Bell Tetrahedral Kites In article , td@research.att.com (Tom Duff <4188-21922> 0112730) Writes: >...Tesla invented a number of important >AC devices (3-phase motors and generators, partiuclarly), he >did so as a Westinghouse employee (or perhaps he sold the rights >to Westinghouse). It was Westinghouse that `promoted' AC power >transmission, not Tesla. Well, if we're discussing the turn-of-the-century history of electricity, we shouldn't forget Steinmetz, who confused the whole issue by inventing the universal motor, that would run on either AC >or< DC. These now account for nearly 900f the small electric motors in power tools and appliances... +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | SilntObsvr@aol.com | Just think where space travel would be today | | Owner/Operator of | had rocketry shown the same advertising | | TableTop Publications | potential as radio! | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | All opinions expressed are my own, and should in no way be mistaken | | for those of the reader. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 21:20:58 -1000 From: johnsen@eskimo.com (Brian Johnsen) Message-Id: Organization: Cap'n Pugets' Roadside Tako Stand Subject: Re: Bell Tetrahedral Kites In article , Tom Duff <4188-21922> 0112730 <4188-21922> wrote: >Brian Johnsen johnsen@eskimo.com avers: >> Bell also firmly believed in Direct Current power and spent thousands of > >Can you quote sources on this matter? If not, I'd suggest that >you become better informed before attacking Bell for a position >that I'm fairly sure he never held. I'm sorry. I have my significant historical figures terribly skewed. It was Edison that had a DC bias, Bell didn't enter into it at all. I apologise to Mr. Bell, and to all that I may have offended by spouting off. -- Brian Johnsen johnsen@eskimo.com Seattle, Washington, USA = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 21:54:18 -1000 From: johnsen@eskimo.com (Brian Johnsen) Message-Id: Organization: Cap'n Pugets' Roadside Tako Stand Subject: Re: Bell Tetrahedral Kites I promise to build a Bell Tetrahedron as pennance. -- Brian Johnsen johnsen@eskimo.com Seattle, Washington, USA = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 10:19:26 -1000 From: coreykite@aol.com (Coreykite) Message-Id: <3e4ece$4lq@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Bell Tetrahedral Kites FYI: Bell's tetras were the first to bring the pilot *into* the craft instead of hanging him below. Also... Bell's descendents are still around. Melvin Bell Grosvenor is the Editor/Publisher of the National Geographic Magazine. Met him in my kite store years ago and we still keep in touch occasionally. Some original cells are at the Society headquarters. The recent re-design of the tetra to an obtuse angle is a very good improvement. Check with KITING magazine for a reprint if you're interested. aoxomoxoa coreykite@aol.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 06:30:14 -1000 From: dickbell@netcom.com (Dick Bell) Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Subject: Re: Bell Tetrahedral Kites Coreykite (coreykite@aol.com) wrote: : Also... Bell's descendents are still around. Melvin Bell Grosvenor is the : Editor/Publisher of the National Geographic Magazine. Corey,....Some by "long distance" :-) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dick Bell dickbell@netcom.com Dallas, Texas = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =