Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 08:38:23 -1000 From: brett@surfpix.princeton.edu (Brett Borowski) Message-Id: <1993Jun2.183823.9393@Princeton.EDU> Organization: Very little. Subject: Beginner's questions Howdy! I haven't done much flying but I'd like to do more. But I need a decent kite, first. (I've flown a Skynasaur F36 and a Go Fly A Kite Lazer 360 before.) So here are my questions: 1) Where's the FAQ? 2) Any general kite recommendations would be welcome. As an inexperienced flier, should I stay away from 'radicals?' 3) I've got the Into The Wind '93 catalog and there are a few kites that look pretty good to me. Any comments on the following would be appreciated: Skynasaur's Ultrawing 96, Bob Childs' Sorcerer, the Fire Dart, North Shore Radical, or the NBK. (ITW says that the NBK flies in 4-30 mph winds. This seems pretty versatile and it's a little cheaper than the NS Radical.) Thanks in advance! Brett -- ---- brett@surfpix.princeton.edu Brett Borowski = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 05:27:37 -1000 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <1ul599$qg8@hecate.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland at College Park Subject: Re: Beginner's questions In article <1993Jun2.183823.9393@Princeton.EDU> brett@surfpix.princeton.edu (Brett Borowski) writes: >Howdy! Hullo! >I haven't done much flying but I'd like to do more. But I need a decent >kite, first. (I've flown a Skynasaur F36 and a Go Fly A Kite Lazer 360 >before.) So here are my questions: > >1) Where's the FAQ? It's hiding. ;-) Dunno when it's due to be posted again, but if you can FTP, you can pick it up from the rec.kites archive, which is found at ftp.hawaii.edu in the directory pub/rec/kites. >2) Any general kite recommendations would be welcome. As an inexperienced > flier, should I stay away from 'radicals?' Yes, you should probably stay away from radicals. Oversteer is not a friend to the inexperienced flyer. >3) I've got the Into The Wind '93 catalog and there are a few kites that > look pretty good to me. Any comments on the following would be > appreciated: Skynasaur's Ultrawing 96, Bob Childs' Sorcerer, the > Fire Dart, North Shore Radical, or the NBK. (ITW says that the NBK > flies in 4-30 mph winds. This seems pretty versatile and it's a little > cheaper than the NS Radical.) Last Monday, I became thoroughly enamored with the Spectra Sports Edge. Into the Wind carries the "Comp" model for $165. This is 3/4 oz Icarex ripstop polyester on a durable frame of ProSpar Comp 16 and 4-wrap Advantage in the spine. I've seen the kite crashed repeatedly in a 15mph+ wind with no ill effects. It's a big, hard-pulling kite. Very precise. Capable of very advanced tricks when you're prepared for them, it was designed to be flyable by a beginner. I can't wait to buy one myself. The Fire Dart was a great kite when it came out. At that time, its only real competition were the Top of the Line Team Hawaiian and Spin-Off. At this point, I'd call it old, mediocre technology. I know there are plenty of people who still happily fly them; I can't personally recommend the kite. The Sorcerer is a great kite, from what I hear, but I've never flown one. The NS Radical is also a good kite. Team High Performance used to fly them in competition. Now they fly the Edge, which they designed. I like the kite, but I'm not crazy about it. The NBK may be a bit too radical for you. It'd definitely be a learning experience. ;-) Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "When I look in the mirror, I see a little clearer/ | |SAFH Lite [tm] | I am what I am and you are you too./ Do you like | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | what you see? Do you like yourself?" --N. Cherry | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 07:21:52 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Jun3.172152.7409@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Beginner's questions In article <1993Jun2.183823.9393@Princeton.EDU>, brett@surfpix.princeton.edu (Brett Borowski) writes: >1) Where's the FAQ? Someday soon I'll have an updated edition of the FAQ out. Now that Wildwood is over, I'll have more evening time for doing things like working on the FAQ. >2) Any general kite recommendations would be welcome. As an inexperienced > flier, should I stay away from 'radicals?' Go with less radical flying kites. You might also look for kites that fly slowly. Visit the local kite folks and see what they are flying. They might let you give their kites a try. It they do, keep the kite in the air and try not to crash it. >3) I've got the Into The Wind '93 catalog and there are a few kites that > look pretty good to me. Any comments on the following would be > appreciated: Skynasaur's Ultrawing 96, Bob Childs' Sorcerer, the > Fire Dart, North Shore Radical, or the NBK. (ITW says that the NBK > flies in 4-30 mph winds. This seems pretty versatile and it's a little > cheaper than the NS Radical.) I like Bob's Sorcerer. It's a nice flying kite that can do the tricks, but it should be sedate enough for a beginner. The Fire Dart falls into this category as well. As Jeff mentioned, it is an old design, so I wouldn't buy one unless you got a good deal on it. The North Shore is beginning to show it's age a bit too, but High Performace, Flight Squadron, Air Art and many others won lots of competitions flying the NSR. You can detune the NBK to make it stable enough for a beginner to fly, but I consider it a kite for more advanced flyers. Stepping onto my soapbox: It really bothers me when someone claims wide wind range for a kite. You can't make a kite that will fly really well in a wide wind range, there has to be compromises. Remember that most people walk at between 3 and 5 miles per hour. That means that in a dead calm most of the ultra-lights claim that you can walk and really stunt their kites. At 20 miles per hour, sand on the beach is beginning to be picked up and carried. At 30 miles an hour sand is flowing rapidly. A new kite (which shall remain nameless) claims a wind range of 1 to 20. I can easily walk backwards at 1, but the kite required a slow trot to get it into the air. At 20 it still flew, but the sticks were flexing like crazy and there was very little precision in the way that the kite flew. So, be wary about such claims. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 07:37:26 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Jun3.173726.7684@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Beginner's questions In article <1ul599$qg8@hecate.umd.edu>, jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: >Last Monday, I became thoroughly enamored with the Spectra Sports Edge. >Into the Wind carries the "Comp" model for $165. This is 3/4 oz Icarex >ripstop polyester on a durable frame of ProSpar Comp 16 and 4-wrap Advantage >in the spine. I've seen the kite crashed repeatedly in a 15mph+ wind >with no ill effects. It's a big, hard-pulling kite. Very precise. Capable >of very advanced tricks when you're prepared for them, it was designed to >be flyable by a beginner. I can't wait to buy one myself. See my review of this kite a little while back in this newsgroup. Since the review, I got a chance to fly the Freestyle Reactor, also by Spectra Sports. Overall, I think that I prefer the Reactor, but I haven't had a chance to fly an Ultra-light Edge or a Maxi-Edge... The price of these kites is certainly right, although they are made in Mexico, which might make a difference to some people. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 05:29:56 -1000 From: jan@uswmrg.mrg.uswest.com (Jan Vilhuber) Message-Id: Organization: USWEST Marketing Resources Subject: Re: Beginner's questions In article <1993Jun2.183823.9393@Princeton.EDU> brett@surfpix.princeton.edu (Brett Borowski) writes: >Howdy! > >2) Any general kite recommendations would be welcome. As an inexperienced > flier, should I stay away from 'radicals?' > >3) I've got the Into The Wind '93 catalog and there are a few kites that > look pretty good to me. Any comments on the following would be > appreciated: Skynasaur's Ultrawing 96, Bob Childs' Sorcerer, the > Fire Dart, North Shore Radical, or the NBK. (ITW says that the NBK > flies in 4-30 mph winds. This seems pretty versatile and it's a little > cheaper than the NS Radical.) > I don't know if a flexifoil counts as a radical (seems pretty radical to me!), but get that. Loads of fun! You can crash it and it don't hurt it. Solo launch with ease.. Anxiously waiting for the wind to pick up... Jan = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 12:48:26 -1000 From: tomv@vismag.limmat.net.ch (Thomas Voirol) Message-Id: Organization: Visual Magic Digital Arts Subject: Beginner's questions I don't get to fly my Rev I very often, but I like the kite very much. What I like best about it is that I can land it and take off again without having to walk to it to pick it up too often. Since I live in the heart of the city and don't have a car, I often drive to the 'burbs with my bike to find a place to fly. These places are often enclosed in buildings and trees. Yesterday now I found a place that looked nice. I put the kite away from the wind, which I had tested by tossing some grass I had ripped off into the air. The tips of the trees were indicating the wind to be blowing in the other direction. Indeed, I could start the Rev quite nicely. However, as soon as it reached a few meters, it was caught by a wind in the back and I lost control completely. To summarize all this: What hints can you give me concerning trying to fly in less-than-optimal wind conditions, i.e. between buildings with changing wind directions. More generally, how do you recognize a good flying ground? Remember, Switzerland has no beaches ;^) //VOIROL JOB (00411,4001642),CLASS=1,MSGCLASS=T,MSGLEVEL=(1,1) /*JOBPARM ROOM=SWITZERLAND //FRSTSTEP EXEC PGM=AMIGAOS //TOMV DD DSN=VISMAG.LIMMAT.NET.CH,DISP=(NEW,CATLG,DELETE), // RECFM=FB,LRECL=80,BLKSIZE=23440,SPACE=(TRK,(20,5,10),RLSE) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 03:49:18 -1000 From: pwmeek@garnet.msen.com (Peter W. Meek) Message-Id: <2vu70u$g9m$4@heifetz.msen.com> Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: +1 313 998-4562) Subject: Re: Beginner's questions Thomas Voirol (tomv@vismag.limmat.net.ch) wrote: : Yesterday now I found a place that looked nice. I put the kite away from the : wind, which I had tested by tossing some grass I had ripped off into the air. : The tips of the trees were indicating the wind to be blowing in the other : direction. Indeed, I could start the Rev quite nicely. However, as soon as it : reached a few meters, it was caught by a wind in the back and I lost control : completely. : To summarize all this: What hints can you give me concerning trying to fly in : less-than-optimal wind conditions, i.e. between buildings with changing wind : directions. As a rule-of-thumb, turbulance and backwinding extend about ten times the height of the obstruction downwind from the obstruction. You will want to be at the downwind end of whatever open space you can find, for best flying conditions. Good luck; I also live in a heavily developed area where it is hard to find good flying conditions. When you do find such places, treasure them. Develop good relationships with the owner/managers: leave the site better than you found it, encourage similar behaviour by other kite fliers (who will see you flying and either join you or come and fly there later). -- --Pete ...I studied with diligence Neptune's laws, and these laws I tried to obey... = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =