Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 10:04:00 -1000 From: douglas.biggerstaff@bville.gts.org (Douglas Biggerstaff) Message-Id: <1b.1190.3655.0NBF679E@bville.gts.org> Organization: Baudeville BBS: Toronto CANADA 416.283.0114 Subject: Applique Question! Hello all, thought I'd stop lurkin' and ask a question! If this is a duplicate question, my appologies, I'm havin' some trouble with my service. I'm curious about "applique" and its' applique-tions :-) in kite building. I have checked the FAQ, but the only mention is in a review of an upcomming video. I have not seen much talk about it here and a wondering if it's considered a "good" way to approach the visual design of a kite. What I mean by that, is, is it acceptable to design a pattern based on the idea of layering the sail, then removing the excess, or "should" the sail be built one panel at a time say, from the spine out? Is overall sail strength an issue? It seems that building the sail by layering would be easier because you have a foundation (the overall shape of the sail) to start upon. Is this a correct assumption? Also, how would you finish the edges (seams) of each panel, that is aside from the hot cutting. By building the sail one panel at a time, you are able to single flat stitch, double flat stitch, etc. the seams, which ends up looking very clean. It seems that applique, although solving the problem of assembly, would look quite messy with all the unfinished seams. Please help the Applique Illiterate! Thanks in advance for any and all assistance! PS, Kudos to David Lord and Mark Descalzo, I think WnKite is great! Douglas BIggerstaff, douglas.biggerstaff@bville.gts.org = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 02:28:05 -1000 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <2s24km$9ev@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Subject: Re: Applique Question! In article <1b.1190.3655.0NBF679E@bville.gts.org> douglas.biggerstaff@bville.gts.org (Douglas Biggerstaff) writes: >I'm curious about "applique" and its' applique-tions :-) in kite >building. I have checked the FAQ, but the only mention is in a review >of an upcomming video. >I have not seen much talk about it here and a wondering if it's >considered a "good" way to approach the visual design of a kite. It's not uncommon for big topics to go for many months at a time without being mentioned; applique techniques and uses have been discussed on rec.kites _many_ times over the last 2+ years. Unfortunately, there's no index to the archives (though an experienced grepper might be able to find what they want...) >What I mean by that, is, is it acceptable to design a pattern based on the >idea of layering the sail, then removing the excess, or "should" the >sail be built one panel at a time say, from the spine out? Is overall >sail strength an issue? I guess it depends on who you ask. A lot of the world's best known kite makers (including the ever popular Randy Tom) would be practically helpless without applique techniques to build their beauties. Others, like Bobby Stanfield, seem to never do any thing but geometric designs sewn together from panels of fabric. Still others, such as Reza of Omega Kites, will do complex geometric inlays that are built around panels. Though I've noticed that Reza *will* do an occasional bit of layering. But as to whether or not it's safe or an accepted practice, the answer is a resounding yes. >It seems that building the sail by layering would be easier because >you have a foundation (the overall shape of the sail) to start upon. >Is this a correct assumption? Whether it's easier depends on the design you want to do. Many graphics are simply impossible without using applique. I wouldn't use applique as an excuse for figuring out the correct sizes of panels and sewing them together (though I've done so in the past). >Also, how would you finish the edges (seams) of each panel, that is >aside from the hot cutting. The edges are not finished beyond hot cutting. Cut the correct shape of fabric, lay it on your kite, and stitch around the perimeter. Most folks will use a narrow zig-zag. I've done some where I've used two sets of straight stitches, one right at the perimeter and the other 3/8" in. People have all sorts of ways of getting an applique to stay on the sail while you sew it. Some folks use glue stick (something water soluble, like UHU). Some use 3M spray adhesive (you also need rubber cement thinner to remove the excess). Some fabrics can be surprisingly well held together just by water. Hot tacking, with a specialized sort of soldering iron-esque tool can work well. I know of at least one pair of professional kite makers who hold applique pieces on with scotch tape! (but only when they're placing a piece on the back of the sail, to cover a hole). Play around, experiment, come up with something that works for you. Once the piece is on, you'll probably want to front- or back-cut the sail. Back-cutting is when you've sewn a piece of fabric on the front of the kite and want to remove the base layer behind it. This lightens the kite and allows the proper color of the fabric to be seen. Some folks, of course, layer fabric purposefully to achieve new colors. Most folks back cut with either pair of very sharp, small scissors, or using a seam ripper tool. To use the seam ripper, place the small ball underneat the bit to be cut and run it along the seam; the ball makes sure that the ripper doesn't get caught, and you can maintain a nice even spacing away from the seam. An incredible amount can be done with applique. Try to have a look at some examples in real life. If you're near a kite club or kite store, try to get a look at what folks have done. There are some very nice examples of applique on commercial kites such as Dean Jordan's (all Jordan Air kites are appliqued). If you can find a kite maker, look at their kites, and ask questions about how certain things were achieved. Good luck! Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Everything is still with a fear of never coming out | |Suffering Bad Grammar| Never following through / Never ever finishing | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | What we wanted to do." -- Melissa Ferrick | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 14:37:46 -1000 From: mg61638@ltec.net (Egald) Message-Id: <45n8pi$d3c@iac2.ltec.net> Organization: Gad Fly Subject: applique question I have completed my first kite. I made a 6 foot Rok and thanks for everyones help. Now I am ready to start on my second kite, Also a Rok. I would like to try an applique. Here in is the question. I understand the concept that you sew the two cloths together then cut using a seam ripper the cloth you are applying to. Ok here is the question, What keeps the ripstop from fraying once you have cut it this way? Marc = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 02:47:50 -1000 From: Mark de Roussier Message-Id: <813700070snx@murder.demon.co.uk> Organization: damage Subject: Re: applique question In article <45n8pi$d3c@iac2.ltec.net> mg61638@ltec.net (Egald) writes: > I have completed my first kite. I made a 6 foot Rok and thanks for everyones help. > > Now I am ready to start on my second kite, Also a Rok. I would like to try an applique. Here in is the > question. I understand the concept that you sew the two cloths together then cut using a seam ripper the > cloth you are applying to. Ok here is the question, What keeps the ripstop from fraying once you have cut > it this way? > Well, you're cutting it very close to the stitching ( and if you're using a fairly dense zig zag, the width of the stitch will be greater than the width of the 'overhang' material ), so there isn't much material there (<=2mm ?? ) to flap around and fray, but also the edges are in the center of the sail, so any given point on an edge has material all around it, which also reduces the ability of the material to move and therefore fray. -- Mark de Roussier ******************************************* I do not want people to be very agreeable, as it saves me the trouble of liking them a great deal. Jane Austen. ******************************************* = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 21:47:46 -1000 From: cmonck@aol.com (CMonck) Message-Id: <45qeb2$7k2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: applique question Instead of using a seam ripper, try this - carefully cut a slit in the piece you want to remove. Slip a piece of .062 or .032" fiberglass through the opening so that it rests against the seam, and cut the ripstop with a soldering iron. Circuit board material works well, just be sure to smooth the edges. You could also do this with the edge of a ruler, but it tends to draw heat from the cutter tip. Good Luck ! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 00:18:35 -1000 From: ahclem0013@aol.com (AhClem0013) Message-Id: <45tbhr$823@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: applique question In article <45n8pi$d3c@iac2.ltec.net>, mg61638@ltec.net (Egald) writes: >I would like to try an applique. Here in is the >question. I understand the concept that you sew the two cloths together then >cut using a seam ripper the >cloth you are applying to. Ok here is the question, What keeps the ripstop >from fraying once you have cut >it this way? The same thing that "allows" things to fly; 'Wind Demons'. BSF try some scissors (small) would ya? You'd be amazed. . . aoxomoxoa = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 03:33:49 -1000 From: sc5@prism.gatech.edu (SPC) Message-Id: <45tmvt$jen@acmex.gatech.edu> Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Subject: Re: applique question Fraying around a back cut, or fore cut for that matter, applique isn't that big of a deal. Really. You don't get that much fraying with modern 3/4 or 1/2 oz. ripstops. After several dozen of air hours, you may get some, but it isn't anything to *really* worry about all that much. Steve *************************************************** * I'm not a participant in any organized hobby... * * I'm a kiteflier! * ******************** aoxomoxoa ******************** http://server1.admin.gatech.edu/fac/steve/kiting/kiting.htm = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 15:22:56 -1000 From: charlie@akg.u-net.com (Charlie Charlton) Message-Id: <45pnpg$bre@oveja.u-net.com> Organization: The rtistic kite Group Subject: Re: applique question In article <45n8pi$d3c@iac2.ltec.net>, mg61638@ltec.net (Egald) says: >Now I am ready to start on my second kite, Also a Rok. I would like to try an applique. Here in is the >question. I understand the concept that you sew the two cloths together then cut using a seam ripper the >cloth you are applying to. Ok here is the question, What keeps the ripstop from fraying once you have cut >it this way? Nothing, But then again whats making it fray ? If you're really worried about fraying pre hot cut all your pieces first, then appliqui them on, but is much harder to do fine, detailed work this way IMHO, but it does work OK Charlie <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ The Artistic Kite Group http://www.u-net.com/~akg | charlie@akg.u-net.com ---- Sew the Sky ---- <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =