Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:13:12 -1000 From: Zackmac1@aol.com Message-Id: <950801001311_127543064@aol.com> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: AKA or AKM i am a little confused over AKA vs AKM point standings. do they both apply or transfer evenly to competition? can only the AKM chosen few contend for the world cup? can only the AKA chosen few contend for the (aka) nationals? are the same rules used by both leagues? is there some type of power struggle? if you were driving the speed of light, and you turned on your headlights, could you see where you were going? just wonderin' aoxo rob = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 05:30:05 -1000 From: sasaki@netopd.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <3vlh9t$vb@netope.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University - OIT/NSD Subject: Re: AKA or AKM In article <950801001311_127543064@aol.com>, Zackmac1@aol.com writes: |>i am a little confused over AKA vs AKM point standings. There is good reason to be confused. This is my slant on things. Remember that I'm an AKA regional director, so I'm biased. |>do they both apply or transfer evenly to competition? No. They are two separate systems. Points are earned and scored in two different ways. Events need to apply for sanctioning from the AKA to award points. Likewise an event must be approved by the AKM board to be part of the AKM circuit. |>can only the AKM chosen few contend for the world cup? Yes. Currently the AKM board decides how points are earned. The two teams with the highest point total by the cut-off date are invited to compete at the World Cup. |>can only the AKA chosen few contend for the (aka) nationals? The AKA system was put in place to reduce the number of competitors at the AKA Grand Nationals. Before a system was put in place, the number of entries was large and appeared that it would continue to grow. Invitations are extended to those who have earned the most points in their conference. |>are the same rules used by both leagues? Yes, both leagues use the AKA/STACK/IJSKA rule book. |>is there some type of power struggle? At one time things between AKM and the AKA were nice and friendly. A division then occured. These days, both the AKA and AKM are trying to work things out and trying to cooperate with each other. |>if you were driving the speed of light, and you turned on your headlights, |>could you see where you were going? I don't know, but I don't think I would care either since time would stop for me... -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 90 Melrose Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Arlington, MA 02174 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-646-1925 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 02:54:35 -1000 From: sc5@prism.gatech.edu (SPC) Message-Id: <3vl86b$56e@acmex.gatech.edu> Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Subject: Re: AKA or AKM In article <950801001311_127543064@aol.com>, wrote: >i am a little confused over AKA vs AKM point standings. >do they both apply or transfer evenly to competition? In a word, no. These are two differing sanctioning bodies, though the AKM circuit events are normally AKA sanctioned. But AKA sanctioning is uo to the event coordinator to obtain. In other words, there is no blanket sanction of the AKM circuit as there is no AKA blanket sanction of any league/circuit. >can only the AKM chosen few contend for the world cup? The World Cup is strickly a team event and can only be entered via invitation from American Kite Magazine. Ususally the top 3 (?) teams >From a country. >can only the AKA chosen few contend for the (aka) nationals? Well, with the AKA it isn't a matter of being *choosen*. To qualify for the AKA Grand Nationals, a flier has to finish in the top 3 positions of a particular event (ie, precission or ballet, individual, pairs or team) in the competition conference. The top five scores are counted in determining final points total. Thus, qualifying for the nationals is a season long process based upon points earned from competition results. In all fairness to AKM, they use the same sort of system, but their points are determined from a circuit that is nation wide. >are the same rules used by both leagues? Yes. Both use the AKA Stunt Kite Rule Book, Third Edition. It is permissible under the rules for an event to modify the rules provided sufficient advance notification is given to the competitors. >is there some type of power struggle? Not really. Some people would disagree, but it's just two different sanctioning bodies with their own champions. >if you were driving the speed of light, and you turned on your headlights, >could you see where you were going? If I were driving at the speed of light, turning off my lights would have no effect as the light would not be in front of me anyway, thus I wouldn't be able to see ahead with or wthout my lights on. See, the light would be traveling at the same rate as I would and thus would just "sit" there, not projecting in front of me. Much like noise generated outside the cockpit when traveling at the speed of sound. '-) Steve = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 04:06:52 -1000 From: mr.nasty@ix.netcom.com (Frank Kenisky ) Message-Id: <3vql5s$oai@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> Organization: Netcom Subject: Re: AKA or AKM You wrote: > >In article <950801001311_127543064@aol.com>, Zackmac1@aol.com writes: >|>i am a little confused over AKA vs AKM point standings. > >|>can only the AKA chosen few contend for the (aka) nationals? > >The AKA system was put in place to reduce the number of competitors at >the AKA Grand Nationals. Before a system was put in place, the number >of entries was large and appeared that it would continue to grow. > >Invitations are extended to those who have earned the most points in >their conference. The "system" which was put in place was an attempt to reduce the number of competitors but by its nature has not only reduced the number of contestants but also discouraged others. For several years, and prior to the inception of this system the AKA was advised not to make the system permanent for the simple reason that it was not a fair system to AKA conference contestants. The answer is Yes, only a chosen few can qualify to compete at the AKA convnetion. But hey, there is a lot to do there. You can attend a workshop on the correct method to wind quad lines. That's an incentive. >|>is there some type of power struggle? > >At one time things between AKM and the AKA were nice and friendly. A >division then occured. These days, both the AKA and AKM are trying to >work things out and trying to cooperate with each other. Not anymore! A recent conversation with another AKA Regional Director, he stated that the President of the AKA, Pete Dolphin made an executive decision and left out the protocal of putting it before the board. As a matter of fact the board decided not to address the issue. You will read about this in your next issue of kiting. Pete, on his own has decided to allow AKM to use the AKA convention as the All American. But then again, if you are an AKA member then you will know that they are the GODZ and can do this type of thing. Seems a bit out of order to me, but then, who am I? My opinion: I feel that the AKM would only add to the AKA convention by refering to it as the All American, that is all. I also have heard that the AKA's Pete Dolphin is discussing with Dan Prentis, to take over the AKA's failed attempt at a ranking system. The reason why the AKA's ranking system has and is failing is because the theory is and has been all wrong and has assumptions which are too general. The system needs to be more concice and FAIR. End Opinion: Just a brief note: One John Burkfart (my chance to stab back) presented the AKA with a proposal to can me. Another waste of AKA time and energy went into a discussion of Mr.Nasty. It seems that the AKA has decided to allow me to stick around. I'm so happy I could just pee. The AKA Regional Director mentioned to me that the secret negoiations between Pete and Dan were rather interesting since, (in his words) Dan has pissed off a whole bunch of people. It would seem that if Dan has pissed off so many people that the AKA wouldn't want him part of their convention. It would also seem that if the president of the AKA "slept" with the wolves then he would not be helping to promote AKA's best interest. Who's membership then should be questioned? Interesting.... more to come. >|>if you were driving the speed of light, and you turned on your headlights, >|>could you see where you were going? > >I don't know, but I don't think I would care either since time would >stop for me... It already has Marty, your stuck in a black hole and can't get out. -- *************>>>>>>>>>>>>>MR.NASTY<<<<<<<<<<<<<************** Fiesta Kite Ideas http://www.tmn.com/kiteweb/home.htm 8302 Tiguex Mr.Nasty@ix.netcom.com Universal City, TX 78148 (210) 659-1803 or (512) 326-6221 ************************************************************* = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 15:29:43 -1000 From: dgomberg@ednet1.osl.or.gov (David Gomberg) Message-Id: <3vrt67$mp8@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Organization: Eastern Oregon State College Subject: Re: AKA or AKM There is a PERCEPTION that the AKA conference/qualifying process has reduced the number of competitors at the Convention. Actually, the opposite is true. The number of sport kite competitors actually INCREASED in 1993 and 1994. Since, however, AKA knew in advance how many fliers to expect in each category, they have been able to plan better, reduce the number of heats, and actually spend less time on formal competition. Sorry, but it's true. BTW - the Board voted to reduce sport competition to one day for the Seaside Convention. This was a mistake. Two good days are called for and that's what they did in Wildwood. I think it worked fine. Anyone disagree? -- David Gomberg/Cascade Kites phone 503-996-3083 Box 113, Neotsu Oregon 97364 USA fax 503-994-9692 Specializing in BIG "show" kites and Peter Lynn Inflatibles For info, see http://www.kite.com/~crowell/caskites.html = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 07:52:12 -1000 From: sc5@prism.gatech.edu (SPC) Message-Id: <3vtmoc$ngd@acmex.gatech.edu> Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Subject: Re: AKA or AKM Comment from the other side of the peanut gallery here... Regarding the AKA conerence ranking system. I personally think it is just as fair as any other conference system. And *all* conferences or leagues or circuits have a points system to determine a champion. It is apparent to me that the AKA system works just as well as any other system. The best way to look at the fact that only the top three from a conference go to the nationals is by comparing it to other sports play-off systems. Let's take NCAA college basketball this time. A season is played. Compare this to a season flown. Games are won and lost. Compare this to points. When the big dance (the NCAA tourney) comes along, only conefernce champions and the teams with the best records (I know, I know, sometimes not, but in such cases the selection committee considers the strenght of the schedule...) get an invitation to the NCAA Tourney. Compare this to inviting the best fliers from each conference, ie, the top three point getters. To me it seems fair. No system will ever be completely fair in everybody's eyes. This is just a fact of life. Steve Cseplo = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 05:32:14 -1000 From: mr.nasty@ix.netcom.com (Frank Kenisky ) Message-Id: <40801u$khi@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> Organization: Netcom Subject: Re: AKA or AKM You wrote: > >There is a PERCEPTION that the AKA conference/qualifying process >has reduced the number of competitors at the Convention. Actually, >the opposite is true. > >The number of sport kite competitors actually INCREASED in >1993 and 1994. Since, however, AKA knew in advance how many >fliers to expect in each category, they have been able to >plan better, reduce the number of heats, and actually spend >less time on formal competition. Hummmm. Did the number of qualifiers increase or did the number of contestants increase? Again here this is unclear. The numbers may have increased but this doesn't mean that it was due to the system itself. Apples and oranges, you know. >Sorry, but it's true. Ah, yes but let us exam the numbers and how they came about. >BTW - the Board voted to reduce sport competition to one day >for the Seaside Convention. This was a mistake. Two good days >are called for and that's what they did in Wildwood. I think >it worked fine. Anyone disagree? Not with you oh wise one. Anything you say must be correct oh God of kiting. Why not choose a time limit. No one would disagree with you oh mighty one. -- *************>>>>>>>>>>>>>MR.NASTY<<<<<<<<<<<<<************** Fiesta Kite Ideas http://www.tmn.com/kiteweb/home.htm 8302 Tiguex Mr.Nasty@ix.netcom.com Universal City, TX 78148 (210) 659-1803 or (512) 326-6221 ************************************************************* = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =