Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 11:27:29 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: Organization: Harvard University OIT/NSD Subject: Re: Aerial Review In article <2p6hfe$96g@umd5.umd.edu>, jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: >In article jbenedict@law.fordham.edu (Jason Benedict) writes: >>That's not necessarily true. I think Dodd would be rather fair and impartial >>in review of the Aerial. >I think it's impossible for Dodd to be impartial about the Aerial. I would >also say that I don't think Marty can be objective about his line of kites. >Marty is *very* good about including disclaimers to the effect that he is >talking about his kites and might be biased. I merely felt it was >necessary to have a similar disclaimer regarding Dodd. The internet is a powerful media. I wear many hats and have learned that I have to be careful when I say something in a public forum like rec.kites. As a manufacturer I have one bias, as an event organizer another. I'm also a sponsored competitor, and on the AKA board of directors. Of course I'm biased, and of course Dodd is biased. I'm glad that Jeff pointed it out, I was going to say something about it if no one else did. >>Jeff Rivers recently told me, "If you have to change the bridal settings >>(after the kite has found it's "sweet" spot) you're flying the wrong kite" > >That's easy for Jeff to say, with a full complement of Ultras (Sati and >1/2oz Icarex, Beman 13 Light and 16 Strong, Advantage 2 Wrap, vented, and >double-vented), Mirages (fiberglass and graphite), Skyburners (regular and >ultralight), and whatever else he takes to competitions. > >Many flyers can only *dream* of having the perfect kite for _any_ wind. >Knowing how to adjust your bridle for different conditions is an important >skill. I don't agree with the "one bridle" setting forever, even though I have a bunch of different kites in my bag. If nothing else, I experiment with different settings to see what the kite can do and what I can do with a kite. This is the reason that I try to have a separate (set of) kite(s) for individual flying and for team flying. Because of speed changes and such, the team kites get set and they are left that way. I can then play with individual settings all that I want to. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 08:42:54 -1000 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <2p6hfe$96g@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Subject: Re: Aerial Review In article jbenedict@law.fordham.edu (Jason Benedict) writes: >That's not necessarily true. I think Dodd would be rather fair and impartial >in review of the Aerial. I think it's impossible for Dodd to be impartial about the Aerial. I would also say that I don't think Marty can be objective about his line of kites. Marty is *very* good about including disclaimers to the effect that he is talking about his kites and might be biased. I merely felt it was necessary to have a similar disclaimer regarding Dodd. >Have you flown the Aerial yet ? I don't think they fly at all alike. Yes, I've flown the Aerial, and I liked it quite a bit. I would consider buying one if it were cheaper. In Australia, where the Aerial is presumably a lot cheaper, I'd like it a lot more. Importing surely adds a lot to the price. You're right that they don't feel the same on the end of the lines. But they're both good precision and ballet kites, both are radical and precise on demand. >and I beleive that the price is about the same. You can get a stock Ultra (Sati on Beman) for under $200. >Jeff Rivers recently told me, "If you have to change the bridal settings >(after the kite has found it's "sweet" spot) you're flying the wrong kite" That's easy for Jeff to say, with a full complement of Ultras (Sati and 1/2oz Icarex, Beman 13 Light and 16 Strong, Advantage 2 Wrap, vented, and double-vented), Mirages (fiberglass and graphite), Skyburners (regular and ultralight), and whatever else he takes to competitions. Many flyers can only *dream* of having the perfect kite for _any_ wind. Knowing how to adjust your bridle for different conditions is an important skill. >BTW Jeff: What was the design on your custom Rev that you flew in ODSKC Quad ? scan of the rev referred to It's a subset of a graphic I use a lot, both on kites and in mindless doodles. There's a much larger graphic with 8 or 9 strokes on my Ultra knock-off. There's no real meaning behind the graphic, at least not one that makes any sense (would you believe me if I told you it came to me in a dream?) It's amazing how many people ask me what it "means," thinking it's a character in a foreign language. (strangely, that one does remind me of a printed aleph in Hebrew, but I didn't plan it that way) Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Everything is still with a fear of never coming out | |Suffering Bad Grammar| Never following through / Never ever finishing | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | What we wanted to do." -- Melissa Ferrick | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 07:39:06 -1000 From: jbenedict@law.fordham.edu (Jason Benedict) Message-Id: Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Aerial Review >Validity and reliability are obviously good things in a review, so, to >insure the quality of this one, I triangulated my findings with those of >two Master Class flyers (Dodd Gross of DJ Sport Kites > It should be noted that Dodd is the US importer of the Aerial (and I've > heard that he may have a financial interest in the companY0, so he is > hardly an objective reviewer.... That's not necessarily true. I think Dodd would be rather fair and impartial in review of the Aerial. I think his only interest in the company is his investment in the product as a distributor. If you re-read the review, it is a very fair representation of the kite. There are currently very few of the Aerials out in the field, and only a handfull of us have flown them. After reading the review I find that it is rather accurate. Both negative and positive aspects. >impressive: It travels straight, corners sharply, spins tightly, does not >over react, and is smooth to fly. > I'll agree with all of this. However, I do not find the Aerial to be worth > its import price. I'd rather have an Ultra for less money... Have you flown the Aerial yet ? I don't think they fly at all alike. This is sorta the old "apples and oranges" scenario. The Ultra is not neccessarily a the same type of flying as the Aerial, so they can't really be compared. (IMHO) and I beleive that the price is about the same. > No bridal adjustments are needed throughout the Aerial's wind range! >This seems to be becoming more common. I never adjust the bridles on my >Tracers (custom full size and 3/4) or my Pro. In fact, on my 3/4 Tracer, I >set the bridles in my house when I built the kite, and I've *never* changed >them once.... Jeff Rivers recently told me, "If you have to change the bridal settings (after the kite has found it's "sweet" spot) you're flying the wrong kite" He means that after the bridal is set properly, you SHOULDN'T have to change it, rather take out the proper kite for that wind condition. BTW Jeff: What was the design on your custom Rev that you flew in ODSKC Quad ? JJ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 09:31:00 -1000 From: ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington) Message-Id: Organization: MIT/LCS Spoken Language Systems Subject: Re: Aerial Review In article jbenedict@law.fordham.edu (Jason Benedict) writes: | Jeff Rivers recently told me, "If you have to change the bridal | settings (after the kite has found it's "sweet" spot) you're flying | the wrong kite" In article <2p6hfe$96g@umd5.umd.edu> jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: | That's easy for Jeff to say, with a full complement of Ultras (Sati | and 1/2oz Icarex, Beman 13 Light and 16 Strong, Advantage 2 Wrap, | vented, and double-vented), Mirages (fiberglass and graphite), | Skyburners (regular and ultralight), and whatever else he takes to | competitions. | | Many flyers can only *dream* of having the perfect kite for _any_ | wind. Knowing how to adjust your bridle for different conditions is | an important skill. I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with Jeff Burka here. If you only use a particular kite over a narrow wind range then adjusting the bridle is probably unnecessary. If you're trying to fly a particular kite over a wider range OR with different flight characteristics then adjustments may be necessary. I think it is an overgeneralization to say you're using the the wrong kite if you feel the need to play with the bridle. For example, on my Katana which has a wide range of adjustments, I do adjust things for different conditions and different desired flight characteristics. I can and do adjust the bridle pick point, the outhaul length, and the amount the outer standoff pushes the trailing edge back. The first mainly adjusts speed, and the second and third have a large effect on characteristics such as stalling ability and oversteer. I like to elicit different types of behavior out of my Katana. I don't think I'm flying the wrong kite just because I choose to adjust things frequently. I have other kites that I rarely, if ever, adjust. I think this "to adjust or not adjust" issue is kite-dependent and flyer-dependent. -- Lee Hetherington ilh@lcs.mit.edu = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 04:36:08 -1000 From: jbenedict@law.fordham.edu (Jason Benedict) Message-Id: Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Aerial Review >BTW Jeff: What was the design on your custom Rev that you flew in ODSKC Quad ? >It's a subset of a graphic I use a lot, both on kites and in mindless >doodles. There's a much larger graphic with 8 or 9 strokes on my Ultra >knock-off. There's no real meaning behind the graphic, at least not one >that makes any sense (would you believe me if I told you it came to me in a >dream?) > >It's amazing how many people ask me what it "means," thinking it's a >character in a foreign language. > >(strangely, that one does remind me of a printed aleph in Hebrew, but I >didn't plan it that way) Ahh... I was (curiously enough) thinking just that. I had meant to ask you, but never found the time. Very nice work on the kite applique. It did indeed look like Hebrew lettering, ( or possibly Oriental , of sorts), but it also could be a good cover up for a rip in a sail .. 8-) BTW: amazing flying... Congrats on the First Place in IIP JJ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =