From: Ian Newham Subject: A newbie question or two Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 13:23:22 -1000 Message-ID: Hello all, since 'newbie' questions don't seem to go down well on usenet and usually yield read the FAQ (I have) type answers, I'll try to keep this brief... A year or so ago I brought a diamond shaped 'stunt' kite from a toy shop, it kept me amused for a while but I soon became frustrated by it's inability to do much more than loops and figure 8s so a couple of months ago I was in another toy shop and brought a Brookkite Alpine (1.45m delta). Hey this thing could fly round square corners and went like the clappers by comparison - I was hooked. Now I find that has some limitations (which may be more to do with my inexperience). It seems to need a strong of wind to fly, which isn't always available. It has no standoffs and the sail seems only too willing to collapse. It doesn't recover too well from the above. The question is where next? I fancy something bigger and more radical yet able to fly in less wind. I have been looking enviously at web ad's for BOT's Psychos etc. and yet quite fancy building my own kite. On one hand I could buy, but BOT's etc are quite expensive and my wife will need a lot of convincing, however I know they will fly. On the other hand I could build - cheaper yes, yet I could go through a frustrating experience putting a lot of effort into something which flys like a brick! Any thoughts? -- Ian Newham = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: Steve Bateman Subject: Re: A newbie question or two Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:56:45 -1000 Organization: San Diego State University Message-ID: <3199802D.328E@mail.sdsu.edu> Ian Newham wrote: > The question is where next? > I fancy something bigger and more radical yet able to fly in less wind. > I have been looking enviously at web ad's for BOT's Psychos etc. and yet > quite fancy building my own kite. > On one hand I could buy, but BOT's etc are quite expensive and my wife > will need a lot of convincing, however I know they will fly. > On the other hand I could build - cheaper yes, yet I could go through a > frustrating experience putting a lot of effort into something which flys > like a brick! I suggest buying a good kite before trying to make your own. The more kites you fly, the more you'll learn about what aspects of the kite influence what; that way if you want to design you're own you'll have a better idea of what to do (but most of us still don't). It also helps to model your construction quality after a good production kite. Steve Bateman bateman@mail.sdsu.edu Flying along. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: Andy Wardley Subject: Re: A newbie question or two Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:41:52 -1000 Organization: Peritas Multimedia Message-ID: Ian Newham writes: >since 'newbie' questions don't seem to go down well on usenet and >usually yield read the FAQ (I have) type answers, I'll try to keep this >brief... It's a common misconception that we bite. As long as it's a relevant question to kiting (which yours is) and not something that can be answered easily in the FAQ (which you've already read), then we welcome such questions. >The question is where next? [...bigger...more radical...less wind...BOT?...Psycho?...make one...] I would steer away from a radical trick kite just at the moment. By all means get one in the future, but if your experience so far has been a simple diamond and a Brookite, you might find a radical trick kite a little too weird until you've had a bit more chance to fly and hone your skills. Making a kite is lot of fun and very rewarding but probably won't save you much money at first. By the time you have bought all the parts (and assuming you already have a suitable sewing machine) you will have spent almost as much as a shop-bought kite. If you plan to make several kites, then it starts becoming cost effective because you can buy several metres of this and that, two dozen thingies, a packet of doo-dahs a few kilometres of thread, etc. Remember also that kite manufacturers buy spars by the hundred so they get a better price than if you buy 8 at a time. So if you're looking to save money, making a kite is perhaps not the way to go at this point. Also, if your experience of these sorts of kites is limited, you might find it frustrating trying to tune the kite and get the bridle properly adjusted, etc. I see you've got a demon account so I'm assuming you're in the UK. In that case, I would recommend a Griffin for about #80. Not *so* expensive that it would break the bank, but a good solid kite that will fly in a fairly wide wind range. It's almost indestructable, easy to fly, reliable and capable of performing a lot of basic moves like push/pull turns, stalls, landings, slides., etc. It will even do some of the latest tricks like Axels, although by the time you get to that stage, you would benefit most from getting a specialist trick kite like the Box of Tricks. The other alternative would be to get a second-hand kite. Many shops buy and sell perfectly good second hand kites at knock down prices. Also, if you find a local group of fliers you might find someone with a kite to sell, or check out adverts here or on the kite trading web page (whose URL escapes me, but I'm sure you can reach it from http://www.kfs.org/kites) If you don't have a local kite shop, or they can't really help, you can try ringing Paul at Kosmic Kites (0181 390 2221). He stocks the Griffin and often has second hand kites available. If you tell him I sent you, he may even give you a discount). Let us know how you get on. Cheers Andy Andy Wardley || . Hacker, digital artist/designer, webmister, brave warrior thricefold decorated in the winky wars, best mate to the rich and famous, no really, I mean that. I luv you, you're my best mate.... For a good time, http://www.peritas.com/~abw = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: mark@murder.compulink.co.uk (Mark de Roussier) Subject: Re: A newbie question or two Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:31:01 -1000 Organization: damage Message-ID: <4ngbb1$7oi@zinc.compulink.co.uk> Steve Bateman wrote: >Ian Newham wrote: >> The question is where next? >> I fancy something bigger and more radical yet able to fly in less wind. >> I have been looking enviously at web ad's for BOT's Psychos etc. and yet >> quite fancy building my own kite. >> On one hand I could buy, but BOT's etc are quite expensive and my wife >> will need a lot of convincing, however I know they will fly. >> On the other hand I could build - cheaper yes, yet I could go through a >> frustrating experience putting a lot of effort into something which flys >> like a brick! > >I suggest buying a good kite before trying to make your own. The more kites >you fly, the more you'll learn about what aspects of the kite influence what; >that way if you want to design you're own you'll have a better idea of what >to do (but most of us still don't). It also helps to model your construction >quality after a good production kite. > I think the most important part of what you say is 'most of us still don't' ! I agree about the construction quality, but would add two things. Firstly, construction quality varies. I think one needs to look at a *range* of kites. Secondly, just because a particular technique is not used in a production model doesn't mean to say you shouldn't use it in what will be, in effect, a prototype. The techniques used in production are optimised for speed and efficient use of materials ( i.e. production - line style manufacturing costs ). Prototyping techniques optimise for robustness, flexibility, and a different sort of cost entirely - the cost of a single unique kite. My advice if making is the prefered option would be 'join a club'. There should be many people who can assist you with basic skills and design problems, and you'll get to see their kites. MdeR -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Final thoughts, as breath is taken, Fall to rhythm, and the Edge of pure obsession, Resting in the wind blown cradle, Nothing moves, the world is still... = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: Ian Newham Subject: Re: A newbie question or two Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 11:52:04 -1000 Message-ID: In article , Ian Newham writes > >The question is where next? >I fancy something bigger and more radical yet able to fly in less wind. >I have been looking enviously at web ad's for BOT's Psychos etc. and yet >quite fancy building my own kite. Thanks for the many replies, both here and by email. As you all say I should learn to walk before I try to run. My logic was why buy an intermediate now and then pay as much again for something better later when I could just buy the something better to start with. Being more responsible I guess a 'good all rounder' with stability, recoverability and robustness would be the better buy right now. I've had a couple of suggestions so far, would anyone else like to suggest a few good intermediate kites, sensibly priced and easily available in the UK? or Anything I might look for secondhand. If nothing else it will make buying secondhand a little easier if I know what I'm looking for / avoiding. PS no holy wars please! :) -- Ian Newham = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: jim@oasis.icl.co.uk (Jim Cheetham) Subject: Re: A newbie question or two Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 22:08:55 -1000 Organization: ICL, Bracknell, UK Message-ID: <4np9an$6km@eccles.dsbc.icl.co.uk> Ian Newham (ian@helen.demon.co.uk) wrote: : I've had a couple of suggestions so far, would anyone else like to : suggest a few good intermediate kites, sensibly priced and easily : available in the UK? or Anything I might look for secondhand. Holy Wars? Kites aren't Operating Systems - I have around 30 kites, but only 6 OSs ... :-) More choice means less aggravation (you hear that, Micro$oft?) Anyway, for great UK kites, the Hooker from Peter Hall (01722 339919) or Airdynamics DarkStar (call Way On High 01432 264206). The Hooker will pull harder than the DarkStar, and I think I'd say that it tracks much more solidly, but the DarkStar (with its add-on wind brakes & cruise control) will perform more consistently to itself over a very wide wind range. Prices are, I think, around L100 for the Hooker, and L125 handles. Nice strap handles, solid ones like the new Boas, and some 80lb and 150lb lines. Length around 100 foot region is fine for getting used to these bigger kites - possibly even longer (up to 150 feet) if you have enough room at the flying field. -- _____ ceci n'est ____ _ pas une _ _ email (__ __) o ______ ( __)( )_ ___ ___ _( )_( )_ ___ ______ (____) (_)(_)()(_) (____)(_)_)(__=)(__=) (_)_(_)_)(___)_(_)()(_) www.guernsey.net/~jim +44 1344 472537 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: Subject: Re: A newbie question or two Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:46:14 -1000 Organization: CTS Network Services Message-ID: <4nrhqm$n5m@news2.cts.com> Ian Newham writes: > In article , Ian Newham > writes > > > >snip > My logic was why buy an intermediate now and then pay as much again for > something better later when I could just buy the something better to > start with. Being more responsible I guess a 'good all rounder' with > stability, recoverability and robustness would be the better buy right > now. > The HQ Kites Jam Session is a great intermediate to advanced kite. I don't but I recommended it to a friend of mine, after hooking him on kite. It's his first kite, and it holding up just fine to the usual "unplanned landings" people do while learning. When I fly it, it feels very nicely. I wish I had stumbled on it earlier, as I think it will take someone from beginner on up to advanced all by itself. Quibbles? Doesn't fly real well in very light winds. Doesn't break down for compact travel. Lionel = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Message-ID: <3164@leadingedg.win.net> From: mgraves@leadingedg.win.net (Michael Graves) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 04:40:30 -1000 Subject: Re: A newbie question or two In article <4np9an$6km@eccles.dsbc.icl.co.uk>, Jim Cheetham (jim@oasis.icl.co.uk) writes: > The Hooker will pull harder than the DarkStar, and I think > I'd say that it tracks much more solidly, but the DarkStar > (with its add-on wind brakes & cruise control) will perform > more consistently to itself over a very wide wind range. This is interesting. From what little I've seen of the DarkStar it resembles my own Tek 3 in basic geometry. Does anyone have one that they'd care to comment on? I'm always curious to explore the parallel evolution that kite designers simply cannot escape. Michael -- Michael Graves michael@majortech.com Graphics Specialist http://www.interlog.com/~mgraves Major Technologies Inc. "These are the wrong sort of bees" Mississauga, Ontario W.T. Pooh = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =