Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 15:05:59 -1000 From: jonesn@gsco.com (Nicholas Jones) Message-Id: <807757559.15787@nebular.demon.co.uk> Organization: Maverick Technolgy Ltd Subject: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying? I've just been buggying down the south cost of England and have been using 3 flexifoils one 8 leading and 2 super 10's behing the eigth gives me a nice tight turn and it's great, BUT on Sunday I went along to this kite meet (Middle Wallop Sailsbury) and there were loads of buggyies with 4 string Peels Quads etc. What I would like to know is are the 4 string kites better for buggying becasue of there control in the power window. And if so what should I go for ? Any help would be kind'a Cool Many Thks Nick 0 |-0 Buggyeeeee 0 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 02:49:26 -1000 From: travell@comics.enet.dec.com (I want to Go Fly a Kite!) Message-Id: <9508071149.AA14275@vbormc.vbo.dec.com> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: RE: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying? > meet (Middle Wallop Sailsbury) and there were loads of buggyies with 4 > string Peels Quads etc. What I would like to know is are the 4 string > kites better for buggying becasue of there control in the power window. > And if so what should I go for ? All a matter of opinion. Peels seem to have a higher ultimate speed, and also appear to pull hard further into the edge of the wind, but require more skill to handle them while buggying. Quad-line kites are generally more manoeverable, and probably easier to fly, but turning most of them is done by putting the brakes on one side or other. Also, they require wrist action to effect the turn, instead of fulling with your arms, which means you are using weaker muscles to do the turns. Some people prefer 2 line, other 4. You have to make your own choice. Send e-mail to Ian Meredith at Mell@buggy.demon.co.uk asking about the British Buggy Club. He will be able to advise you where and when they meet. Ask questions, try out several different kites, see what YOU like best. If you live anywhere near Southampton, get in touch with me... John Travell. Solent Kite Flyers is based around Southampton, UK, Contact me by Email "travell@comics.enet.dec.com" for further info. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 13:37:41 -1000 From: ahclem0013@aol.com (AhClem0013) Message-Id: <406845$on@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying In article <807757559.15787@nebular.demon.co.uk>, jonesn@gsco.com (Nicholas Jones) writes: >What I would like to know is are the 4 string >kites better for buggying becasue of there control in the power window. >And if so what should I go for ? Welcome to the wacky world of kite buggying, Nick. Andrew describes it like the difference in automatic transmission over manuel, with peels being manual and quads being automatic. Now that i have lots of hours on both, i think peels are automatic and i only use quads (skytiger 26 or quadrafoil 25) for higher winds. For me, the peels connect me more with what i'm doing, not to mention they are faster than everything else. You should make a smooth transition from flexi to peels or big dual line, it was hard for me tho, since i had spent the most time on quads. Whichever way you go, consider coming to El Mirage Dry Lake for Buggy Boogie Two. You will meet the most like minded individuals on the planet. aoxo = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 19:38:05 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying ahclem0013@aol.com (AhClem0013) writes: >Andrew describes it like the difference in automatic transmission over >manuel, with peels being manual and quads being automatic. Hmmm... It's a while since I've used that description. It looks kinda odd without the context of my explanation. Let me explain. This involves gross generalisation and stereotyping, so please be offended. All Americans drive cars with automatic gearboxes. All Europeans drive cars with manual boxes. The Europeans use the manual because they want the improved performance, improved economy and the more direct control and feel of a manual box. The Americans drive autos because they are incapable of learning the simple skills required to master the device. Likewise, with power kites. Europeans spend a few hours mastering the handling of a two-liner, to take advantage of the improved performance, whereas the Americans look for the product that allows them to buggy successfuly at the lowest skill level. (Andrew ducks and runs away) -- New to rec.kites? START HERE! | To: www@kfs.org send an email message like this->| Subject: service Skydiving is safe. Bungee is safe| http://www.kfs.org/kites/welcome/index.html Russian roulette is a calculated risk. Kite jumping is for morons = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 09:23:24 -1000 From: serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) Message-Id: <40dmaj$c5c@ninja.zso.dec.com> Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Subject: Re: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) wrote: >(Andrew ducks and runs away) >-- >New to rec.kites? START HERE! | To: www@kfs.org >send an email message like this->| Subject: service >Skydiving is safe. Bungee is safe| http://www.kfs.org/kites/welcome/index.html >Russian roulette is a calculated risk. Kite jumping is for morons Boy, are you asking for it!!! :-) Ken One who buggies and skates with both quad and dual line kites. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 19:49:20 -1000 From: sirby@nwlink.com@nwlink.com (Steve Irby) Message-Id: <40er10$ej4@alaska.nwlink.com> Organization: Northwest Link Subject: RE: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying? In article <9508071149.AA14275@vbormc.vbo.dec.com>, travell@comics.enet.dec.com (I want to Go Fly a Kite!) wrote: > >Quad-line kites are generally more manoeverable, and probably easier to >fly, but turning most of them is done by putting the brakes on one side >or other. Also, they require wrist action to effect the turn, instead of >fulling with your arms, which means you are using weaker muscles to do >the turns. You need to try the Quad-Trac on a buggy. This engine can be controlled mostly in a two-line fashion, using the lower "brake" lines to assist in the turns. The load is really on the biceps, with a flick of the wrist to initiate the turn. My Peel experience is limited, but many who have flown both would agree. >Ask questions, try out several different kites, see what YOU like best. > Always the best way to go. Steve- (only a little biased) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ STEVE IRBY sirby@nwlink.com (206)930-8350 Seattle, Washington U.S.A. Skynasaur Sport Kites flyer/rep for Western Washington State Have *you* tugged your kite today? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 05:12:47 -1000 From: jtavo@aol.com (JTavo) Message-Id: <40fs1f$nl6@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying Andrew states:All Americans drive cars with automatic gearboxes. All Europeans drive cars with manual boxes. The Europeans use the manual because they want the improved performance, Etc etc etc ...... Jtavo sez; maybe you can't afford the automatic tranny 'cause you spent all you money on peels! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:11:07 -1000 From: jtavo@aol.com (JTavo) Message-Id: <40gh1b$l1@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying I'm gonna ramble a little so hold on! After being around those peel guys for awhile, (Dean, Fritz, Peter, Dom, etc) I feel I can give some pretty good observations on this thread. If you are new to buggying, I think most people are a little more comfortable with a Quad bag. This is because a quad is easier to get back in the air if you need. New peel flyers often need help.(I said new) Quads generally fly on shorter lines. This gives you less of the feeling that you are gonna run into every other kite in the sky. Quads are less expensive. Peels are very well made. But so are the best quad bags. Advantages of the peel: You can tack a few degrees more upwind than a quad. BUT, this is getting less and less with the new Hi aspect quads such as the Hitigers and the Hi aspect Quad tracs Now for the big issue that peel flyers often crow about: Speed! This again is getting to be less of an issue with the hi aspect Quads. Example, At Wildwood in May, Dave Town with a hi 40 Skytiger was Unbeatable! He regularly passed Fritz and Dean with the peels and I was doin the same with the Hi 60! (no dean, you did not have two flats and goin backwards!) My greatest thrill was coming up un fritz at about 35 M.P.H. and seeing him turn around and go Uh -Oh! (Dean was 0ften heard that day saying *I'm gonna get another kite!*) Now hold on! This was with the right winds, and the next day the peels had the run of the beach so the speed issue is not that big anymore. Quads are EASIER. With a quad and a harness, you can buggy one handed! Just a little correction on the upper line with one hand is very relaxing on those long runs. Hell with the above mentioned harness, I can even drink a beer with my free hand as I buggy! you can't do that with a peel! (boy I am rambling) But here is the bottom line: If your desire is to go a little faster than some Quads and tack up wind a little more AND buggy ALOT, then the peel with a lot of practice is the way to go. BUT, if you buggy just a few times a year, Like Auto transmissions, beer and the lazy way of life, Save some money and get either a Hi- aspect Skytiger or a Hi-aspect Quad trac! Yes Andrew, Us fat lazy Americans like big luxury cars and quads for flying. But the real bottom line is Just buggy! Its a blast! I love my Quads and someday I may even have a peel! (if someone gives it to me!) Later, and REALLY looking forward to El-Mirage in January!! Oxo, John Tavolacci = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 08:47:11 -1000 From: ahclem0013@aol.com (AhClem0013) Message-Id: <40isvf$kcd@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying In article <40gh1b$l1@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jtavo@aol.com (JTavo) writes: > I love my Quads and someday I may even have a peel! (if someone gives it >to me!) >Later, and REALLY looking forward to El-Mirage in January!! > > Hey John, just so your dreams don't get smashed in the desert, you better let dquad & I build you a big black bag, you never know where Cobie's gonna be. . . . . . don't forget to check under those rocks. aside to Fritz(#1) did you fall asleep to let #3 pass you, or is he dreaming again!? aoxo = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 07:04:13 -1000 From: johnsona@novell2.chnt.gtegsc.com (Al Johnson) Message-Id: <40l307$4o5@frodo.ShireNet.com> Organization: ShireNet Communications Systems, Inc. Subject: Re: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying Time for a comment by someone who only tried to buggy once. I participated in the buggy class at AKA 94. The Peel caused me a lot of trouble as a rank beginner. It was quicker than I liked (and I fly Flexis occasionally). It was also on long lines in crowded area on the beach and if (when actually) I crashed it, I did need help relaunching. I didn't get to try it with quad lines but hopefully the opportunity will arise in Tulsa. All of the comments about the Peels being great are probably correct, but I still had trouble learning with it. For what it is worth. Al Johnson Reston, VA jtavo@aol.com (JTavo) wrote: >Andrew states:All Americans drive cars with automatic gearboxes. All >Europeans drive >cars with manual boxes. The Europeans use the manual because they want >the improved performance, Etc etc etc ...... >Jtavo sez; maybe you can't afford the automatic tranny 'cause you spent >all you money on peels! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 02:31:30 -1000 From: francis@red.seas.upenn.edu (Francis J Gramkowski Iii) Message-Id: <40nfn2$dao@netnews.upenn.edu> Organization: University of Pennsylvania Subject: Re: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying AhClem0013 (ahclem0013@aol.com) wrote: : In article <40gh1b$l1@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jtavo@aol.com (JTavo) : writes: : > I love my Quads and someday I may even have a peel! (if someone gives it : >to me!) : >Later, and REALLY looking forward to El-Mirage in January!! : > : > : Hey John, just so your dreams don't get smashed in the desert, you better : let dquad & I build you a big black bag, you never know where Cobie's : gonna be. . . : . . . don't forget to check under those rocks. : aside to Fritz(#1) did you fall asleep to let #3 pass you, or is he : dreaming again!? : aoxo He is not dreaming he did pass me, however he neglected to include that I was pulling a tandem and after I ditch the tandem I was able to pass him and achieve a top speed of about 40 mph. He may have passed my when I was in a single buggy, but I don't think he did. Dave Town on the other has passed me on many occasions, using Sky Tigers. Dave is fast, I think he is one of the fastest buggiers I know. Fritz = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 16:44:32 -1000 From: ahclem0013@aol.com (AhClem0013) Message-Id: <40p1mg$dce@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: 2 or 4 string kites for buggying In article <40nfn2$dao@netnews.upenn.edu>, francis@red.seas.upenn.edu (Francis J Gramkowski Iii) writes: >He is not dreaming he did pass me, however he neglected to include that I >was pulling a tandem and after I ditch the tandem I was able to pass him >and achieve a top speed of about 40 mph. He may have passed my when I >was in a single buggy, but I don't think he did. Dave Town on the other >has passed me on many occasions, using Sky Tigers. Dave is fast, I >think he is one of the fastest buggiers I know. It's true, Dave was passing us, but wasn't he using the 60 and we were using a 530?? I think if we were racing, we could have moved up a size and said, seee ya!! oxo = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =