Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 18:34:43 GMT From: jrmcfarl@jrm.b30.ingr.com (Joseph R McFarland) Message-ID: <1993Feb26.183443.21347@b30news.b30.ingr.com> Organization: Intergraph Corporation Subject: 1.5m Graphite Spars Many of the stunt kite plans I have read call for fairly long graphite spars on the order of 1.5 meters. Yet the sources I have found (e.g Into The Wind) have 6 mm spars on the order of 32 inches (half the size.) Although the spars can be segmented together, I assume there must be some place to buy the longer continous graphite tubes. Can anyone suggest a supplier? -- Joe McFarland jrmcfarl@jrm.b30.ingr.com SNA Development Intergraph Corporation (205) 730-3817 -- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 26 Feb 93 20:28:23 GMT From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-ID: <1993Feb26.202823.15255@nic.funet.fi> Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET Subject: Re: 1.5m Graphite Spars In <1993Feb26.183443.21347@b30news.b30.ingr.com> jrmcfarl@jrm.b30.ingr.com (Joseph R McFarland) writes: >Many of the stunt kite plans I have read call for fairly long graphite spars >on the order of 1.5 meters. Yet the sources I have found (e.g Into The Wind) >have 6 mm spars on the order of 32 inches (half the size.) >Although the spars can be segmented together, I assume there must be some place >to buy the longer continous graphite tubes. Can anyone suggest a supplier? For historical reasons the sticks are still very often of arrow length. Vlieger-OP (in Netherlands) has standard spar lengths as: .825, 1.0, 1.25, 1.5 and 1.65 m I don't know if they already have a distributor in U.S. but call or fax them and ask. The outer diameters you can select from 6.0 upto 20.0 mm! Vlieger-Op: phone: +31-70-3858586 fax: +31-70-3838541 Smooth Winds Simo Salanne = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: 28 Feb 93 16:45:03 GMT From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-ID: <18723@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland at College Park Subject: Re: 1.5m Graphite Spars In article <1993Feb26.183443.21347@b30news.b30.ingr.com> jrmcfarl@jrm.b30.ingr.com (Joseph R McFarland) writes: >Many of the stunt kite plans I have read call for fairly long graphite spars >on the order of 1.5 meters. Yet the sources I have found (e.g Into The Wind) >have 6 mm spars on the order of 32 inches (half the size.) Yup--average size of spars is around 32" in length--arrow sized. >Although the spars can be segmented together, I assume there must be some >place to buy the longer continous graphite tubes. Can anyone suggest a >supplier? Don't assume anything--for the casual customer, there is no way to get longer continuous tubes. And no real need. Ferruling is a perfectly acceptable method of joining spars, and I rarely break spars at joins. On occasions where this _has_ happened, the fault is usually my own for not using a long enough ferrule (such as at a t-fitting). If you're ordering in quantity, it is possible to convince a manufacturer to do special runs for you. I'm told that the El Nino is comprised of 4 50" custom AFC sticks--one for each leading edge, one cut in half for the bottom spreaders, and the final stick is cut such that the short piece is the upper spreader and the long piece is the spine. But of course, this is a production kite and large quantities of the special sticks are ordered. Revolution will do custom lengths of Advantage, but if you order a stick that's "too long" (I'm not sure what their cut off is), they'll simply deliver a spar that's in sections, with the standard Rev internal ferrule. I know a guy who ordered a 50" length from them, and it was delivered in two pieces. Is there any particular reason you want longer lengths? They'll probably be more expensive (because they're so much less common), and in most situations, it seems to me that there's a *definite* advantage to having a kite that can be broken down to a convenient travel/shipping size. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Fairies are the perfect people to do this | |(suffering Bad Grammar) | sort of work. Biologically, their upper | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | bodies are strong enough to wield a pickaxe...." | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: 28 Feb 93 19:56:30 GMT From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-ID: <1993Feb28.195630.15550@nic.funet.fi> Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET Subject: Re: 1.5m Graphite Spars In <18723@umd5.umd.edu> jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: (text deleted) >Is there any particular reason you want longer lengths? They'll probably >be more expensive (because they're so much less common), and in >most situations, it seems to me that there's a *definite* advantage to >having a kite that can be broken down to a convenient travel/shipping >size. The present 1/1 stunt kite size comes from "arrow size" spars - I believe. I also believe that making light wind kite about 5/4 size using "standard" spars yields better result than using "ultralight" (fragile) spars in 1/1. 5/4 size means about 2 m leading edge and about 1.2 - 1.4 m2 sail area. Now if I am using arrow size spars, I need TWO joints in the leading edge. The unassembled size is determined by the spine (1.2 - 1.3 m), unless I'll split that, too. In Rev's and Rok's spar size > 1 m is very useful, too. I made inventory in my spar stock today. I am going to order some more, but 1 meter will be the shortest. It's much easier to cut a piece off that add it! Smooth Winds Simo Salanne = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 21:49:21 GMT From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-ID: Organization: Negligible. Subject: Re: 1.5m Graphite Spars In article <18723@umd5.umd.edu> jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: >Ferruling is a perfectly >acceptable method of joining spars, and I rarely break spars at joins. Hmmm... I have heard that Highfliers use *weak* Ferrules to join their leading edge spars, so that in the event of a bad crash, you are more likely to break $0.0n worth of ferrule rather than $n.00 worth of carbon spar. I don't *know* this, it's only what I've heard. Andrew -- andrew@tug.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 22:19:57 GMT From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-ID: <1993Mar3.221957.25288@nic.funet.fi> Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET Subject: Re: 1.5m Graphite Spars In andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) writes: >In article <18723@umd5.umd.edu> jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: >>Ferruling is a perfectly >>acceptable method of joining spars, and I rarely break spars at joins. >Hmmm... I have heard that Highfliers use *weak* Ferrules to join their >leading edge spars, so that in the event of a bad crash, you are more >likely to break $0.0n worth of ferrule rather than $n.00 worth of carbon >spar. I don't *know* this, it's only what I've heard. When I bought my 1st Phantom they (Nick Finnimore?) explained the same thing about the spine, which was (is?) made from two pieces. The "fuse" makes sense when I fly for fun or exercise, but for competition I rather have ferrule strong enough:-) Smooth Winds Simo Salanne = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: 5 Mar 93 23:14:26 GMT From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-ID: <18828@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland at College Park Subject: Re: 1.5m Graphite Spars In article andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) writes: >Hmmm... I have heard that Highfliers use *weak* Ferrules to join their >leading edge spars, so that in the event of a bad crash, you are more >likely to break $0.0n worth of ferrule rather than $n.00 worth of carbon >spar. I don't *know* this, it's only what I've heard. I think this is done by several companies. One problem, though, is that the ferrule can be glued on so tightly that you can't get the old one off. This can be compensated for by gluing the broken half of the ferrule onto the other spar and then gluing a larger diameter ferrule over the whole thing. I've broken ferrules on my NS Extremes and my Rev I. I'm quite certain that Rev *plans* for broken ferrules instead of spars. As I posted when I first broke the ferrule in that kite, there are two little slivers of viny tubing stuffed into the ferrule between the two sticks. I think this cushion helps break the ferrule... As for what Highfliers does, I can't say. I don't think I've ever broken a ferrule in my Phantom, though. I've broken a spine, a lower spreader, and two upper leading edges. On the matter of Highfliers replacement parts, last April I made the mistake of buying a replacement bottom spreader for my Phantom. Not only was it ridiculously expensive, but I noticed that the kite was flying funny after I put on the new spar. I checked and found the new spreader to be almost an inch too long!! Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Fairies are the perfect people to do this | |(suffering Bad Grammar) | sort of work. Biologically, their upper | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | bodies are strong enough to wield a pickaxe...." | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =