Message-ID: <39F9A641.99C9636E@earthlink.net> From: Jason Mainland Reply-To: jmain@earthlink.net Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical Subject: Lord Caitanya and Swami Haridas boundary="------------734A56035C43EE384CADD817" Lines: 111 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:57:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.179.204.98 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 972658622 209.179.204.98 (Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:57:02 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:57:02 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: newsread1.funet.fi rec.music.indian.classical:8150 --------------734A56035C43EE384CADD817 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings. I ask the scholars among us to handle a question I have been wondering about lately. Sri Jiva Goswami (1513-1598) became a devotee of Lord Caitanya of Bengal as a youth, following in the footsteps of his father and two uncles. Lord Caitanya sent him off to Vrindaban to live, where he spent most of his life writing and contemplating transcendental love. On the way he spent some years in Benaras becoming educated. One of his greatest works is the "Tattva-sandarbha", a commentary upon the Bhagavata Purana and articulation of the philosophy of ecstasy. In it, Sri Goswami expounds upon "apaasrayah", or "ultimate shelter" in God. In the words of Swami B.V. Tripurari, who recently wrote a bhavanuvada of Tattva-sandarbha, "It is he who is both associated with and aloof from the states of waking, dreaming, and deep sleep". Considering his relative proximity to Gwalior and the time period, I wonder if Sri Jiva Goswami had any association with Swami Haridas, Tansen, etc. Does anyone have any information on this? Lord Caitanya was a big fan of singing Kirtan, so it seems that Sri Goswami should at least have *heard* about these other two fellas, and maybe some of their buddies too. Kabir had just died in 1460; also, the devotional Bengali poets Candi-das and Vidyapati were also writing in the 1400's. I find this interesting in relation to the development of the Indian classical music tradition, because Caitanya's main appeal was to the masses - the lowly castes, etc - who learned that no matter their station in life, they could know God through singing His names. On a religious level, this challenged the varnasrama-dharma/caste system (the Musselmans probably hated all that crazy chanting too, though maybe they couldn't hear them). Musically, this approach contrasts sharply to the approaches of later "gharanas", which cloistered music away for the elite. Of course we're talking about two different kinds of music - devotional and classical. But there are connections, no? Any thoughts on "temple music" vs. "devotional music" in the streets? One tangential follow-up to the post by our friend Saqib. In Daniel Neuman's book "The Life of Music in North India", there is a section entitled "Music as Divine Expression" in the chapter "Being a Musician". I wanted to reproduce a quote simply for reflection and perhaps to generate some commentary. He writes, "For Sufis and the Muslim musicians today, music as a form of devotion to and worship of God is the rationale given to explain the performance of music in the light of its discouragement of prohibition in Islam." He was writing this in the early 1970's. Regards, Jason Mainland --------------734A56035C43EE384CADD817 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Greetings.

I ask the scholars among us to handle a question I have been wondering about lately.

Sri Jiva Goswami (1513-1598) became a devotee of Lord Caitanya of Bengal as a youth, following in the footsteps of his father and two uncles.  Lord Caitanya sent him off to Vrindaban to live, where he spent most of his life writing and contemplating transcendental love.  On the way he spent some years in Benaras becoming educated.  One of his greatest works is the "Tattva-sandarbha", a commentary upon the Bhagavata Purana and articulation of the philosophy of ecstasy.  In it, Sri Goswami expounds upon "apaasrayah", or "ultimate shelter" in God.  In the words of Swami B.V. Tripurari, who recently wrote a bhavanuvada of Tattva-sandarbha, "It is he who is both associated with and aloof from the states of waking, dreaming, and deep sleep".

Considering his relative proximity to Gwalior and the time period, I wonder if Sri Jiva Goswami had any association with Swami Haridas, Tansen, etc.  Does anyone have any information on this?  Lord Caitanya was a big fan of singing Kirtan, so it seems that Sri Goswami should at least have *heard* about these other two fellas, and maybe some of their buddies too.

Kabir had just died in 1460; also, the devotional Bengali poets Candi-das and Vidyapati were also writing in the 1400's.  I find this interesting in relation to the development of the Indian classical music tradition, because Caitanya's main appeal was to the masses - the lowly castes, etc - who learned that no matter their station in life, they could know God through singing His names.  On a religious level, this challenged the varnasrama-dharma/caste system (the Musselmans probably hated all that crazy chanting too, though maybe they couldn't hear them).  Musically, this approach contrasts sharply to the approaches of later "gharanas", which cloistered music away for the elite.  Of course we're talking about two different kinds of music - devotional and classical.  But there are connections, no?  Any thoughts on "temple music" vs. "devotional music" in the streets?

One tangential follow-up to the post by our friend Saqib.  In Daniel Neuman's book "The Life of Music in North India", there is a section entitled "Music as Divine Expression" in the chapter "Being a Musician".  I wanted to reproduce a quote simply for reflection and perhaps to generate some commentary.  He writes, "For Sufis and the Muslim musicians today, music as a form of devotion to and worship of God is the rationale given to explain the performance of music in the light of its discouragement of prohibition in Islam."  He was writing this in the early 1970's.

Regards,
Jason Mainland --------------734A56035C43EE384CADD817--